The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[merithyn]

I mean we need to have police. They just mean disbanding the current organizations and start new ones right?

I've heard that it's really about ending the Unions. They're seen as the number one problem in fixing this situation.

Then why don't people say that?

They do. That's why it's what I've heard, and most of the people I've heard who are protesting or supporting protesters are saying it.

The fact that the New York State Union president sent out a letter basically saying that de Blasio is a pansy doesn't really help.

[Valmy]

We are all conditioned to support the police and other first responders so getting so much of the country turned against them takes some truly shocking tone deafness and inteptitude.

Is the 'we' in this sentence, white people?

American citizens generally.

[merithyn]

We are all conditioned to support the police and other first responders so getting so much of the country turned against them takes some truly shocking tone deafness and inteptitude.

Is the 'we' in this sentence, white people?

Duh. That's the default.

How could you possibly forget?

[garbon]

We are all conditioned to support the police and other first responders so getting so much of the country turned against them takes some truly shocking tone deafness and inteptitude.

Is the 'we' in this sentence, white people?

American citizens generally.

Okay, well count me the way fuck out of that.

[merithyn]

We are all conditioned to support the police and other first responders so getting so much of the country turned against them takes some truly shocking tone deafness and inteptitude.

Is the 'we' in this sentence, white people?

White American citizens generally.

FYPFY

You should probably know that it really isn't "all Americans" on this.

[Valmy]

Okay, well count me the way fuck out of that.

What? You hate firefighters and EMTs as well?

[Valmy]

FYPFY

You should probably know that it really isn't "all Americans" on this.

If you say so. Generally our media and culture encourage us to call the police and other emergency personnel in appropriate situations.

[garbon]

Okay, well count me the way fuck out of that.

What? You hate firefighters and EMTs as well?

You lead with the police. I don't think I've ever felt supportive of the police. I don't think I've ever been conditioned to support them either.

[crazy canuck]

FYPFY

You should probably know that it really isn't "all Americans" on this.

If you say so. Generally our media and culture encourage us to call the police and other emergency personnel in appropriate situations.

It is not that controversial is it.  Same goes for indigenous people here.  Ask them who they trust and police would rank the bottom of the list.

[Valmy]

Okay, well count me the way fuck out of that.

What? You hate firefighters and EMTs as well?

You lead with the police. I don't think I've ever felt supportive of the police. I don't think I've ever been conditioned to support them either.

I thought I was clear I talking about all first responder personnel.

[garbon]

Okay, well count me the way fuck out of that.

What? You hate firefighters and EMTs as well?

You lead with the police. I don't think I've ever felt supportive of the police. I don't think I've ever been conditioned to support them either.

I thought I was clear I talking about all first responder personnel.

They aren't all the same.

[merithyn]

Okay, well count me the way fuck out of that.

What? You hate firefighters and EMTs as well?

Do you think that firefighters and EMTs treat black people the same as white people? Because I'm going to go with no, not so much.

It's not about hating. It's about lacking trust, and it's with cause.

[Sheilbh]

Question for the room, because it came up in my Twitter feed, and I genuinely wonder.

Would we see the same amount of public support for the protests against police brutality and racism, if it was overwhelmingly black protesters who protested and were assaulted by the police?

I.e. does the copious footage of white Americans being treated so harshly increase the overall positive perception of the movement?

Hugely, for sure. But I think there's two parts to it and an element of that was getting white people to care enough to join the protests. Then the violence has been fairly uncontrolled by the police I'd say.

But you know this always the way with any minority rights the key is getting the majority to care and to sympathise. All minority rights depend on a degree of support from the majority and the easiest way to get that is common or shared suffering.

The fact that the New York State Union president sent out a letter basically saying that de Blasio is a pansy doesn't really help.

But, in fairness, it's de Blasio:

[Valmy]

Using their service = supporting them?

Ok look I don't want to get into some kind of semantic discussion. If I was wrong I was wrong. I just see so much media generally supporting first responders as good people you can rely on.

[Sheilbh]

The Buffalo video of the elderly gentleman being shoved is quite disgusting. Especially how many cops just walk past when a puddle of blood forms under his head. The original police report said the man "tripped and fell." They've since corrected it and suspended the officer who shoved him has been suspended without pay.

Man, it is popular to be all panicked about technological progress and social media, but phone cameras and Twitter are proving to be the best weapons against police brutality.

On the policemen walking past though: the closest one wanted to kneel down to the old guy, but then the other hand (supposedly his superior) pushed him onward and started calling it in, so I assume the rest just knew it was being taken care of. I mean, I just kind of must assume that.

It looks like the one who pushed him tried to help him, and his superior pulled him on while calling it in. If you keep watching the video, the National Guard comes in to help the old man.

From a local reporter:

Dave Greber
@DaveGreber4
#BREAKING: I'm told the entire @BPDAlerts
Emergency Response Team has resigned from the team, a total of 57 officers, as a show of support for the officers who are suspended without pay after shoving Martin Gugino, 75. They are still employed, but no longer on ERT. @news4buffalo

So from what I've understood they are resigning in protest to support police burtality?

Edit: And, incidentally, from what I've seen that elderly man has a serious head injury from this shove.