The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[merithyn]

That still has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of your post?

Sure it does.

Police shootings are bad. Segue to possible covid transmission in Paris.

Please tell me your point isn't: "cops killing black folks in the USis wrong, but look at all these black folks in another country that might get covid19 and die".

Is that it?

Why do you want me to tell you that isn't my point? There is some irony in a bunch of majority non black protesters under banners and chants of "black lives matter", protesting the police killing of about ~300 black people a year, spreading a disease that is disproportionately taking black lives (so far killed about 30,000 of them in the US in the past 4 months).

The racial breakdown of covid deaths in France is harder to find, but the disease has impacted that country significantly worse than the US on a per capita basis.

Ok, so that was your point.

/ignore

Props for trying.

[Razgovory]

Yes. He's supposed to let him run away. You don't kill someone over this.

What is the criteria for letting someone run away?  This guy was violent, armed and discharged a weapon at the police.

[alfred russel]

Yes. He's supposed to let him run away. You don't kill someone over this.

What is the criteria for letting someone run away?  This guy was violent, armed and discharged a weapon at the police.

A nonlethal weapon. You don't kill someone trying to retreat just because he tried to do something violent at some point.

[Razgovory]

Yes. He's supposed to let him run away. You don't kill someone over this.

What is the criteria for letting someone run away?  This guy was violent, armed and discharged a weapon at the police.

A nonlethal weapon. You don't kill someone trying to retreat just because he tried to do something violent at some point.

A less-than-lethal weapon.  They can still kill people.  We just saw a bunch of less-than-lethal weapons used on protesters last week.  And he just shot it at a cop.  The violent act was not hours in the past, it was about two seconds in the past.

So an armed and violent man runs into a residential neighborhood and police are expected to just go "yeah, well it'll probably turn okay. Let's go home"?  There has to be time when it is in fact okay for the police to shoot at someone.  I would have thought that attacking the police, stealing the officer's weapon and then shooting at the cop with weapon would fit the criteria.

[alfred russel]

A less-than-lethal weapon.  They can still kill people.  We just saw a bunch of less-than-lethal weapons used on protesters last week.  And he just shot it at a cop.  The violent act was not hours in the past, it was about two seconds in the past.

So an armed and violent man runs into a residential neighborhood and police are expected to just go "yeah, well it'll probably turn okay. Let's go home"?  There has to be time when it is in fact okay for the police to shoot at someone.  I would have thought that attacking the police, stealing the officer's weapon and then shooting at the cop with weapon would fit the criteria.

They explore the space of response options between 1) shooting someone twice in the back killing him and 2) just going home.

[Razgovory]

A less-than-lethal weapon.  They can still kill people.  We just saw a bunch of less-than-lethal weapons used on protesters last week.  And he just shot it at a cop.  The violent act was not hours in the past, it was about two seconds in the past.

So an armed and violent man runs into a residential neighborhood and police are expected to just go "yeah, well it'll probably turn okay. Let's go home"?  There has to be time when it is in fact okay for the police to shoot at someone.  I would have thought that attacking the police, stealing the officer's weapon and then shooting at the cop with weapon would fit the criteria.

They explore the space of response options between 1) shooting someone twice in the back killing him and 2) just going home.

How much time elapse between when the victim shot at the officer while running away and the police officer shot back? 1 second?  2? 

[chipwich]

A less-than-lethal weapon.  They can still kill people.  We just saw a bunch of less-than-lethal weapons used on protesters last week.  And he just shot it at a cop.  The violent act was not hours in the past, it was about two seconds in the past.

So an armed and violent man runs into a residential neighborhood and police are expected to just go "yeah, well it'll probably turn okay. Let's go home"?  There has to be time when it is in fact okay for the police to shoot at someone.  I would have thought that attacking the police, stealing the officer's weapon and then shooting at the cop with weapon would fit the criteria.

They explore the space of response options between 1) shooting someone twice in the back killing him and 2) just going home.

So at some point one or more cops are going to have to confront him and he still has the taser. Would it then be ok to shoot him in the front?

[alfred russel]

Chipwich and Raz: don't shoot the dude with the taser. I get it if you are alone, but not if you have backup.

[Admiral Yi]

Chipwich and Raz: don't shoot the dude with the taser. I get it if you are alone, but not if you have backup.

OK, dude has not been shot.  What next?

[alfred russel]

Chipwich and Raz: don't shoot the dude with the taser. I get it if you are alone, but not if you have backup.

OK, dude has not been shot.  What next?

Tell him to put the taser down.

Dude fell asleep at a Wendy's drive thru and took a taser. They weren't trying to apprehend someone on America's Most Wanted. The sky wouldn't fall if he got away (and he probably wouldn't because he would be leaving his car behind).

[Admiral Yi]

Tell him to put the taser down.

Dude fell asleep at a Wendy's drive thru and took a taser. They weren't trying to apprehend someone on America's Most Wanted. The sky wouldn't fall if he got away (and he probably wouldn't because he would be leaving his car behind).

So it turned out that the space of response options between 1) shooting him in the back twice and 2) just going home was not that vast.

[Grey Fox]

Chipwich and Raz: don't shoot the dude with the taser. I get it if you are alone, but not if you have backup.

OK, dude has not been shot.  What next?

Why is it the normal reaction for the police, after an act of violence, to escalate the situation? Why are they so afraid?

You have so accepted the fact that the police is going to be killing people on a regular basis that you don't wonder about the motivations anymore, just how it's going to work if they don't.

[Admiral Yi]

Why is it the normal reaction for the police, after an act of violence, to escalate the situation? Why are they so afraid?

You have so accepted the fact that the police is going to be killing people on a regular basis that you don't wonder about the motivations anymore, just how it's going to work if they don't.

I know that cops are going to encounter violence during their work day and think about how a just society that treats its citizens fairly should empower cops to respond to that violence.  I don't subscribe to simplistic narratives like "cops don't care about me, they only look out for themselves," or "cops escalate violence out of fear" because it doesn't fit my observations and I don't subscribe to any ideologies or protest slogans that need to demonize cops or anyone else.

[Razgovory]

Chipwich and Raz: don't shoot the dude with the taser. I get it if you are alone, but not if you have backup.

OK, dude has not been shot.  What next?

Tell him to put the taser down.

Dude fell asleep at a Wendy's drive thru and took a taser. They weren't trying to apprehend someone on America's Most Wanted. The sky wouldn't fall if he got away (and he probably wouldn't because he would be leaving his car behind).

So basically "Stop or we'll say "stop" again?".  I'm not sure if I like the model of legal immunity so long as you can run very fast.

[Eddie Teach]

I'm ok with falling asleep at Wendy's going unpunished.