The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[DGuller]

Is it even possible to get an objective picture of what's happening? I'm sure it's easy to pick shots of violence from both sides as well as police and protesters showing solidarity.

Probably pretty hard to do it algorithmically.  At some point you just have to take a leap of faith and decide who you trust to at least try to get the story right.  You may get your judgment wrong, because you may start off biased, or your trusted sources may let you down.  However, the alternative is to shrug your shoulders, declare truth to be unknown and unknowable, and believe what you want to believe. 

I followed that blogger for more than five years, and I trust him to be a very reasonable fellow, as well as have enough street smarts to know where the story will unfold before it does.  He saw three cop cars torched live the first night, and he witnessed a car accident right in front of him (and almost involving him) as the looters in a brand new Mercedes tried to escape the police roadblock.  Hard to cherrypick such things before they even happen.

[The Brain]

Is it even possible to get an objective picture of what's happening? I'm sure it's easy to pick shots of violence from both sides as well as police and protesters showing solidarity.

Probably pretty hard to do it algorithmically.  At some point you just have to take a leap of faith and decide who you trust to at least try to get the story right.  You may get your judgment wrong, because you may start off biased, or your trusted sources may let you down.  However, the alternative is to shrug your shoulders, declare truth to be unknown and unknowable, and believe what you want to believe. 

I followed that blogger for more than five years, and I trust him to be a very reasonable fellow, as well as have enough street smarts to know where the story will unfold before it does.  He saw three cop cars torched live the first night, and he witnessed a car accident right in front of him (and almost involving him) as the looters in a brand new Mercedes tried to escape the police roadblock.  Hard to cherrypick such things before they even happen.

The upper classes are joining in?

[Tamas]

I think it is quite clear with anarchy the scum will let loose. And being a scum is not genetic so you'll find all skin colours among them.

I think it should be possible to side with the original reason of the protests while condemning rampant looting and rioting. I quite believe the stories of far-right groups stoking this fire as well, this is exactly what they want to see I think. Every day this goes on is one more nail in the coffin of resolving the issues that triggered the protests in the first place. And every day this goes on make the installation of the fascist police state they yearn for more likely.

[Solmyr]

Is it even possible to get an objective picture of what's happening? I'm sure it's easy to pick shots of violence from both sides as well as police and protesters showing solidarity.

Seen some social media reports that those photo-ops of police showing solidarity were just that, photo-ops, and they turned around and gassed the protesters right after.

[Tamas]

Is it even possible to get an objective picture of what's happening? I'm sure it's easy to pick shots of violence from both sides as well as police and protesters showing solidarity.

Seen some social media reports that those photo-ops of police showing solidarity were just that, photo-ops, and they turned around and gassed the protesters right after.

It's on social media so it surely is not hyperbole.

[Syt]

[jimmy olsen]

https://twitter.com/AircraftSpots/status/1267674928729358336

Tonight, multiple C-130J and C-17A cargo aircraft from Fort Riley, Fort Drum, and Fort Bragg are arriving into Andrews AFB. (
@AP
reporting 82nd Airborne Division activated) 10th Mountain Division & 1st Infantry Division which were on standby, also appear to be activated.

[jimmy olsen]

Four St. Louis police officers struck by gunfire.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/2020-06-01-nationwide-protests-over-george-floyd-death-live-n1220761/ncrd1221826#liveBlogHeader

[jimmy olsen]

A truck plowed into a group of protesters blocking I-244 in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Injuries were reported as a result of the incident.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1267738744544727040

[jimmy olsen]

Officer shot in the head in Las Vegas

https://twitter.com/orko_manna/status/1267731603570089985

[Tamas]

I think it is time now for the protesters to stop. At this stage, without clear aims of what they want to achieve, they will just become human shield for the looters, and it's not like that human shield is going to slow the police or the national guard down.

[garbon]

I think it is time now for the protesters to stop. At this stage, without clear aims of what they want to achieve, they will just become human shield for the looters, and it's not like that human shield is going to slow the police or the national guard down.

[Sheilbh]

I think it is time now for the protesters to stop. At this stage, without clear aims of what they want to achieve, they will just become human shield for the looters, and it's not like that human shield is going to slow the police or the national guard down.

Satyagraha is the aim, no? Despite all the moaning about MLK the thing I've found really striking about a lot of the videos I've seen is how MLK/Gandhian they are. BLM protesters on the knees with their arms up still, or kneeling in front of someone still receiving violence. It's the Gandhi line "passive resistance is a means of securing rights by personal suffering" or self-sacrifice to obtain rights.

Otherwise, to flip your point around, the police face pressure and protests (and it needs to go wider than just the police - see the two coroners' opinion about Floyd's cause of death) after a wrongful killing. All they need to end the protests is for enough violence to occur. That's a perverse incentive for a police force. Either it encourages them to allow violence or to ramp it up themselves - if they can provoke a riot then the conversation can move on and the protests should wind down? Whereas if your goal is passive resistance then in a weird way it's arguably when the authorities are most under pressure and lashing out that you're best able to reveal them (at the cost of personal sacrifice)?

I'm also seeing plenty of BLM protesters and leaders trying to stop the violence - I've seen them forming human chains around businesses and lone policement to protect them. As far as I'm concerned that's the extent of their sort-of responsibility for this. Don't use violence yourself and encourage others not to, fully aware that this could lead to self-sacrifice but continue to protest.

[Syt]

Police forcing an object into a protester's hand: https://twitter.com/BrutumF/status/1267575655509577728?s=20

[Tamas]

I think it is time now for the protesters to stop. At this stage, without clear aims of what they want to achieve, they will just become human shield for the looters, and it's not like that human shield is going to slow the police or the national guard down.

Satyagraha is the aim, no? Despite all the moaning about MLK the thing I've found really striking about a lot of the videos I've seen is how MLK/Gandhian they are. BLM protesters on the knees with their arms up still, or kneeling in front of someone still receiving violence. It's the Gandhi line "passive resistance is a means of securing rights by personal suffering" or self-sacrifice to obtain rights.

Otherwise, to flip your point around, the police face pressure and protests (and it needs to go wider than just the police - see the two coroners' opinion about Floyd's cause of death) after a wrongful killing. All they need to end the protests is for enough violence to occur. That's a perverse incentive for a police force. Either it encourages them to allow violence or to ramp it up themselves - if they can provoke a riot then the conversation can move on and the protests should wind down? Whereas if your goal is passive resistance then in a weird way it's arguably when the authorities are most under pressure and lashing out that you're best able to reveal them (at the cost of personal sacrifice)?

I'm also seeing plenty of BLM protesters and leaders trying to stop the violence - I've seen them forming human chains around businesses and lone policement to protect them. As far as I'm concerned that's the extent of their sort-of responsibility for this. Don't use violence yourself and encourage others not to, fully aware that this could lead to self-sacrifice but continue to protest.

What I mean is, this thing cannot stay at the stage it is at right now. There must be some clear, achievable goals set for the protests, or they should be stopped/paused.

Gandhi and MLK had such clear goals with independence and legal reform. As it was discussed previously, the current issue with minority rights is not legal, but cultural - the law does not allow for discrimination anymore, but it is simply being ignored on many many levels. And that is not an overnight change to undo.

So either the protests must escalate to overthrow the system of government so that a system which enforces such laws get put in place, or they should be stopped before they become counterproductive.