The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[Eddie Teach]

Cops arresting news crews for no obvious reason while they are recording seems a new low to me. I don't remember that ever happening before in the US. Seems more like something you would expect to see in China.

Don't presume malevolence when something can be explained by incompetence.

Well go ahead then. Explain it using incompetence.

Misinterpreting the situation. Misinterpreting his orders. Misinterpreting the laws. Faulty communication. Mistaken perception of threat.

That doesn't even take into account that the news story might be missing crucial details.

[Barrister]

Yes, it is. Because being polite and taking a knee hasn't gotten anyone anywhere.

This guy was killed for possibly passing a fake $20 bill. His life was worth less than $20.

These people want to destroy these insured businesses? Yeah, I'm okay with that.

I don't even know what to say.  Didn't your mom ever teach you two wrongs don't make a right?

Plus this is exactly what Trump wants.  He's got to be gleeful that he gets to stand up for "law and order" (plus anything to distract from the pandemic).

The riots themselves then distract from the murder of George Floyd.

[Valmy]

Misinterpreting the situation. Misinterpreting his orders. Misinterpreting the laws. Faulty communication. Mistaken perception of threat.

That doesn't even take into account that the news story might be missing crucial details.

I don't see how any of those adequately explain how arresting a guy with a camera crew and a press pass works at all. Especially since they were released because they were found to be press members. How? That's impossible. I mean unless these cops were just flown in from a different planet none of those make any sense for a human being who has spent any time in this country.

The only explanation that would make sense would be your last point, that the story is reported incorrectly or is misleading something but that is not the same as incompetence by the police.

[DGuller]

These people want to destroy these insured businesses? Yeah, I'm okay with that.

If it's insured, then I guess no one really pays for the damage, right?  And just in case you are one of those people who think crimes are okay as long as insurance company pays, business do have to pay deductibles, and they may not be insured against all the damages such as business interruption.

[grumbler]

Yes, it is. Because being polite and taking a knee hasn't gotten anyone anywhere.

This guy was killed for possibly passing a fake $20 bill. His life was worth less than $20.

These people want to destroy these insured businesses? Yeah, I'm okay with that.

Wow. Just wow.  I don't think I will ever be able to read another post of yours without remembering that you are the one that's okay with people destroying innocent peoples' livelihoods because you think an injustice occurred.  That's very disturbing. 

[merithyn]

If the price to pay to deescalate that moment is a couple of police cars burned down, and a few broken windows, I consider it a much, much lower price than the deployment of battalions of cop all geared up in military gear, which inevitably lead to further escalation, as the last - oh, 50, 60 years? - have conclusively shown. To me, the much bigger cost is to the body politic - but I am sure you can make a narrow economic reading re: the monetary cost of police brutality and repression.

I don't think burning a police car deescalates anything.  Instead it's an accelerant.  Oh look what we got away with - what else can we do!  That's not any one person's thought pattern, but that is the mob mentality.

Yes, it is. Because being polite and taking a knee hasn't gotten anyone anywhere.

This guy was killed for possibly passing a fake $20 bill. His life was worth less than $20.

These people want to destroy these insured businesses? Yeah, I'm okay with that.

Well I mean we have also been rioting for 50+ years as well. What will get us somewhere is not clear.

"We" have? For 50+ years?

Frankly, I'm surprised it's taken the black community this long to lose their minds over their people being killed. I mean, white folk took big ass guns to the courthouse in Michigan because they were told to wear masks. Imagine if they were killed over $20.

[merithyn]

Yes, it is. Because being polite and taking a knee hasn't gotten anyone anywhere.

This guy was killed for possibly passing a fake $20 bill. His life was worth less than $20.

These people want to destroy these insured businesses? Yeah, I'm okay with that.

Wow. Just wow.  I don't think I will ever be able to read another post of yours without remembering that you are the one that's okay with people destroying innocent peoples' livelihoods because you think an injustice occurred.  That's very disturbing.

This whole situation is disturbing. Everything about this is disturbing. The fact that black people can be arrested because a white woman is annoyed with them is distubring. The fact that black people are killed in their homes by white people, and white people justify it. The fact that black people are treated as less than every single day of their lives is disturbing.

And to date, just calling it out has gotten them nowhere. People on this forum argued that Colin Koepernick as just a poser and was in the wrong.

You think differently of me for thinking that maybe a few stores being burned might finally change this? Oh well. I stopped caring about that a long time ago. I applaud these people for standing up and fighting in a way that gets attention, because it's been a long time coming. Frankly, I'm amazed at their patience with white America.

[Valmy]

"We" have? For 50+ years?

Frankly, I'm surprised it's taken the black community this long to lose their minds over their people being killed. I mean, white folk took big ass guns to the courthouse in Michigan because they were told to wear masks. Imagine if they were killed over $20.

Ok? What does any of that have to do with what I said? This has been a big deal for decades. Numerous incidents like this provoking civil unrest has already happened. One would think that would lead to cities and police forces  being really fucking careful and pro-active and ready to deal with them...but nope. I don't know what will get people's attention or action.

Well maybe that is unfair, maybe there are police departments and governments who are doing those things we just don't hear about it much. I would like to think that.

[grumbler]

Fanatics can always rationalize violence.  I just wasn't aware that we had one of those kinds of fanatics here on languish.

[merithyn]

I just know that crying foul over people fighting for a right to live - not even in peace but to LIVE - is bullshit.

They have every right to fight, and fight hard, to be seen, heard, and to live. This has gone on long enough.

[merithyn]

Fanatics can always rationalize violence.  I just wasn't aware that we had one of those kinds of fanatics here on languish.

You got me, grumbler. I'm a fanatic. For treating people with respect, for treating people equally based on who they are, not what they are. For not killing people over $20. For not shooting a man in front of his child for telling a police officer that he has a legal gun in his possession. For being tired of seeing black American treated as less than. For believing in equality and fairness.

Guilty. As. Charged.

[Oexmelin]

Fanatics can always rationalize violence.  I just wasn't aware that we had one of those kinds of fanatics here on languish.

It's a bizarre thing to say. We all rationalize violence - sometimes, it's violence by cops, by armies, by revolutionaries we deem fighting for a good cause. By people claiming to act in self defense. We place it along a spectrum of more or less legitimate, more or less deplorable. Somehow, it's always the violence committed by those we do not deem worthy of legitimate motivation that is always deemed irrational.

[Valmy]

I just know that crying foul over people fighting for a right to live - not even in peace but to LIVE - is bullshit.

They have every right to fight, and fight hard, to be seen, heard, and to live. This has gone on long enough.

I am just baffled that they aren't being seen or heard or getting any action even when these kinds of extreme measures are taken.

Edit: Well ok I lied I am not baffled at all. Just depressed about it.

[Syt]

I'm actually with meri on this. In recent weeks we've had a black jogger shot by vigilante wannabes, a black EMT shot when her boyfriend opened fire on intruders into their home (turned out they were cops at the wrong address), and a black guy was killed over a fake $20 bill.

Protesting hasn't done anything in the past, kneeling during the national anthem brought a major backlash, and honestly, I don't see what the community can do to make themselves heard. Going the political route, getting involved in local politics, or elected to state and federal legislative bodies is a slow process that's important but is difficult to find the patience for when these cases occur several times a year with broad media coverage and who knows how many that are barely a blip in the national news circus.

I'm sure there's many good cops out there who are appalled by their colleagues' behavior, and many police districts that are working honestly to make sure those cases don't happen on their watch, but it just takes a few incidents to drag everything down again.

Having a president that appears to encourage some of the worst elements doesn't exactly help, and neither does the whole pandemic/economic crisis situation.

[Valmy]

Protesting hasn't done anything in the past, kneeling during the national anthem brought a major backlash, and honestly, I don't see what the community can do to make themselves heard.

I agree. But, as I said, it isn't like civil unrest has had much success on this issue either. For whatever reason society only seems to react to their actions but not to the point. Except to portray them as wanting to kill cops and that the poor cops need to be defended. Blue Lives Matter. Leftwing people just want to demonize cops and shit.

And again the fact is that this is an issue that affects everybody in our country. The police sometimes brutalize people from all the communities (and obviously they do it to black and latinos and low income communities more) and often little official action is taken, but somehow there is so little solidarity. I just...I don't get it. It is so frustrating.

The majority of police officers do a good job and one would think they would be eager to get rid of these bad apples but instead they close ranks. But DGuller has talked a bit about that mentality.