The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[CountDeMoney]

Tazers seem pretty reliable from what I've seen, provided officers have them.  Not all agencies do.  And if the gendarmes jump into the phone booth to change into their Waffen-SS outfits, they may not have them available.

[PDH]

Tazers aren't as cool as an APC.

[Valmy]

it sure seems like there would be other methods to deal with him.

There isn't.  You have to drop somebody with a knife.  That's not really a negotiable item.

Well the guy seems to be mentally unstable and seems like he was going for suicide-by-cop.  It is a little upsetting that there was no choice but to accommodate him, especially under the circumstances.

[DGuller]

It is a little upsetting that there was no choice but to accommodate him, especially under the circumstances.

What do the circumstances have to do with it?  I think it would be more upsetting if police guidelines were like "Kill him, unless it's going to raise too much stink."

[Valmy]

At the same time, it did appear to me that you were taking issue with what didn't seem like an unreasonable action on the apart of officers who had someone coming at them with a knife drawn.

My issue was with their training.  Just like my issues with their equipment.  It may indeed be the case that in that situation any police department around the world would be expected to gun that guy down, after all that was what he wanted the cops to do, but I was questioning if there really was no non-lethal way to deal with it.

[Valmy]

It is a little upsetting that there was no choice but to accommodate him, especially under the circumstances.

What do the circumstances have to do with it?  I think it would be more upsetting if police guidelines were like "Kill him, unless it's going to raise too much stink."

I think maintenance of public order should be a police concern.  Why is it upsetting that it would be?  Lives and property are at stake.  Killing people in a community is a last resort.

[DGuller]

It is a little upsetting that there was no choice but to accommodate him, especially under the circumstances.

What do the circumstances have to do with it?  I think it would be more upsetting if police guidelines were like "Kill him, unless it's going to raise too much stink."

I think maintenance of public order should be a police concern.  Why is it upsetting that it would be?  Lives and property are at stake.  Killing people in a community is a last resort.

That's the thing, it should always be a last resort, and thus it shouldn't be conditional on the riot situation in general.

[Barrister]

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/BREAKING-Officer-involved-shooting-in-St-Louis-271876701.html

A 23-year-old man was shot and killed after showing a knife to an officer in North St. Louis, according to Chief Sam Dotson.

Dotson confirmed that there was a fatal officer-involved shooting around 12:30 p.m. at McLaran Avenue and Riverview Drive in North St. Louis. 

According to Dotson, the suspect stole two energy drinks from the Six Stars Market in the 8700 block of Riverview. Dotson said after the suspect walked out of the store with the drinks, he went back inside the store and grabbed a pastry. Dotson said the store owner followed the suspect out of the store and police were dispatched to the area.

According to police, the suspect pulled out a knife and was acting erratically when officers arrived. Dotson told reporters the suspect told responding officers to "shoot me now, kill me now."   Dotson said officers asked the suspect to drop the knife, which he was holding in an overhead grip, and the suspect refused to do.



When the suspect approached the officers carrying a knife, officers fired shots striking the suspect. The suspect was pronounced dead at the scene of the shooting.

When asked about the validity of the shooting, Dotson said officers "have a right to defend yourself."

Mayor Francis Slay tweeted that there will be a "complete and transparent" investigation into the shooting.  He pledged that St. Louis "will know everything I know."

A large, peaceful crowd quickly came to the scene of the shooting.  Some said police had other options, and did not have use lethal force.

"It's in their best interest, with Ferguson and everything going on, to use a taser," said Tommy Lee, a resident of the area. 

"A knife cannot puncture a vest," another resident said.

Oh for fucksake.  How are they training these cops?  They cannot use tasers or anything?  If somebody cannot be talked down then it is shoot to kill?  Well at least this dude wasn't unarmed.

Valmy - use of a Taser would be appropriate, if the officer in question had a taser.

It's tough to say since you're only going by a few words in a newspaper article, but it sounds as if the use of deadly force may have been justified here.  A knife is a deadly weapon.  Police are trained that a person with a knife can approach and strike you very quickly.  Standard procedure would be for police to maintain their distance and try and talk this guy down, but if he gets too close and refuses demands to drop the knife they can and should use deadly force.

[Valmy]

That's the thing, it should always be a last resort, and thus it shouldn't be conditional on the riot situation in general.

Indeed.  But the whole controversy is if the police are becoming militarized and shooting a bit too liberally (and maybe are all racists blah blah) is it not? 

Anyway fortunately in this case it is on tape, as it should be, so the situation can be reviewed.

[CountDeMoney]

"A knife cannot puncture a vest," another resident said.

The fuck it can't.

[DontSayBanana]

"A knife cannot puncture a vest," another resident said.

The fuck it can't.

Derp.

[derspiess]

Tazers seem pretty reliable from what I've seen, provided officers have them.  Not all agencies do.  And if the gendarmes jump into the phone booth to change into their Waffen-SS outfits, they may not have them available.

One thing the Cincy PD learned the hard way is you don't tase a robbery suspect while he's climbing over top of a fence

[11B4V]

"A knife cannot puncture a vest," another resident said.

The fuck it can't.

Ah fuck that was funny.

[Malthus]

"A knife cannot puncture a vest," another resident said.

The fuck it can't.

Every once in a while, I read an article about some bonehead who goads his buddy into "just take a stab, man, I'm wearing my bulletproof vest ...".

[derspiess]

I hadn't paid attention to this until today because we were doing our Cabin Weekend mini-vacation down in Tennessee.  But apparently the developments caused my lefty co-worker of color (who insists on talking politics in the office) to change his tune a bit.  He's no longer calling the shooting an "execution".