The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[Razgovory]

If the report is the unvarnished truth I would agree it's very troubling and exposes some serious issues that need to be addressed.  But since it was produced under the direction of our self-described "Activist Attorney General", it's difficult for me to trust it.

He's becoming a parody of himself.

[grumbler]

If the report is the unvarnished truth I would agree it's very troubling and exposes some serious issues that need to be addressed.  But since it was produced under the direction of our self-described "Activist Attorney General", it's difficult for me to trust it.

You know, I thought he was being deliberately ironic when he wrote this, but I'm no longer so sure.  He does sound just like Siege, doesn't he?  Was that mocking Siege, or unconsciously channeling him?

[Eddie Teach]

Why don't you try actually reading portions of the report?  At 105 pages it a manageable length.  And to me it seems very well sourced - it has statistics and a whole series of emails to support the accusations it makes.

[mongers]

For the Languish "Meh, they're only niggers" crowd : an article where you can read excepts of the DOJ report, so you're not bothered with having to read the whole thing, what with it not being "proof in and of itself of discriminatory policing".

Ferguson's Conspiracy Against Black Citizens
How the city's leadership harassed and brutalized their way to multiple civil-rights violations

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/03/ferguson-as-a-criminal-conspiracy-against-its-black-residents-michael-brown-department-of-justice-report/386887/

One passage describes the way that Ferguson officials have criminalized being too poor to pay a ticket:

    In 2013 alone, the court issued over 9,000 warrants on cases stemming in large part from minor violations such as parking infractions, traffic tickets, or housing code violations. Jail time would be considered far too harsh a penalty for the great majority of these code violations, yet Ferguson's municipal court routinely issues warrants for people to be arrested and incarcerated for failing to timely pay related fines and fees. Under state law, a failure to appear in municipal court on a traffic charge involving a moving violation results in a license suspension. Ferguson has made this penalty more onerous by only allowing the suspension to be lifted after payment of an owed fine is made in full.

Here's how Ferguson officials wreak havoc on people's lives over the tiniest of infractions:

    We spoke... with an African-American woman who has a still-pending case stemming from 2007, when, on a single occasion, she parked her car illegally. She received two citations and a $151 fine, plus fees. The woman, who experienced financial difficulties and periods of homelessness over several years, was charged with seven Failure to Appear offenses for missing court dates or fine payments on her parking tickets between 2007 and 2010. For each Failure to Appear, the court issued an arrest warrant and imposed new fines and fees.

    From 2007 to 2014, the woman was arrested twice, spent six days in jail, and paid $550 to the court for the events stemming from this single instance of illegal parking. Court records show that she twice attempted to make partial payments of $25 and $50, but the court returned those payments, refusing to accept anything less than payment in full. One of those payments was later accepted, but only after the court's letter rejecting payment by money order was returned as undeliverable. This woman is now making regular payments on the fine. As of December 2014, over seven years later, despite initially owing a $151 fine and having already paid $550, she still owed $541.

....

Some officers from the Ferguson police department are so poorly trained and ignorant of the law that they openly related their unconstitutional behavior to DOJ investigators:

In our conversations with FPD officers, one officer admitted that when he conducts a traffic stop, he asks for identification from all passengers as a matter of course. If any refuses, he considers that to be "furtive and aggressive" conduct and cites—and typically arrests—the person for Failure to Comply. The officer thus acknowledged that he regularly exceeds his authority under the Fourth Amendment by arresting passengers who refuse, as is their right, to provide identification ... Further, the officer told us that he was trained to arrest for this violation.

That shit over years will just grind you down; if I were in that poor person's position I think I'd prefer out and out racism.

At least if it's in you face you can react to it in a number of ways, depending on your personality and resources..

[derspiess]

Why don't you try actually reading portions of the report?  At 105 pages it a manageable length.  And to me it seems very well sourced - it has statistics and a whole series of emails to support the accusations it makes.

No shit, now I have to read 105 pages just to please Beeb, who will still probably think I'm a racist? 

[Barrister]

Why don't you try actually reading portions of the report?  At 105 pages it a manageable length.  And to me it seems very well sourced - it has statistics and a whole series of emails to support the accusations it makes.

No shit, now I have to read 105 pages just to please Beeb, who will still probably think I'm a racist?

I don't think you're a racist.

YOu don't have to believe in institutional racism to see that a police force and justice system who sees its prime role as being to generate income for the city is profoundly broken.

[Admiral Yi]

I've been told Iowa City gets about 40% of its revenue from traffic infractions, OUI being the biggest.

[The Minsky Moment]

I joked a little above about this but the civil powers of governmental entities in the US are enormous and kind of scary.  The kinds of things that the DOJ talks about in the report are the manifestation at the local level of say the extraordinary forfeiture powers of the DOJ itself or their power to seize or freeze bank accounts or the powers of law enforcement authorities at all levels to seize contraband.  The systematic abuse that seems to have taken place in Ferguson may not be universal but even occasional, sporadic abuse is very troubling.  Rights that depend on the forbearance and discretion of individual agents of law enforcement are not rights at all.  And since we are talking about property rights, one would expect to see the libertarian wing of the conservative movement up in (non 2nd amendment) arms about this.  And to be fair, that does seem to be the case at the level of the academic world and commentariat.  But curiously, not much beyond that.  Where are the outraged outpourings of Cruzesque bloated rhetoric about over-reaching enforcement powers?  Where are the dozens of bills and riders to trim it back?  At the level of actual politics, where the rubber hits the road, does solicitude for property rights get trumped by the felt need to be seen as backing law and order in all instances?

[Martinus]

I think it gets trumped by hating black people. Just as it does with opposition to anything Obama does.

[Barrister]

I've been told Iowa City gets about 40% of its revenue from traffic infractions, OUI being the biggest.

That's messed up.

[MadImmortalMan]

Where are the outraged outpourings of Cruzesque bloated rhetoric about over-reaching enforcement powers?  Where are the dozens of bills and riders to trim it back?  At the level of actual politics, where the rubber hits the road, does solicitude for property rights get trumped by the felt need to be seen as backing law and order in all instances?

They're too busy trying to be Tough On Crime(R).

[Razgovory]

Where are the outraged outpourings of Cruzesque bloated rhetoric about over-reaching enforcement powers?  Where are the dozens of bills and riders to trim it back?  At the level of actual politics, where the rubber hits the road, does solicitude for property rights get trumped by the felt need to be seen as backing law and order in all instances?

They're too busy trying to be Tough On Crime(R).

More like the result of low taxes.  Municipalities have to make up the cash some way.

[DGuller]

I joked a little above about this but the civil powers of governmental entities in the US are enormous and kind of scary.  The kinds of things that the DOJ talks about in the report are the manifestation at the local level of say the extraordinary forfeiture powers of the DOJ itself or their power to seize or freeze bank accounts or the powers of law enforcement authorities at all levels to seize contraband.  The systematic abuse that seems to have taken place in Ferguson may not be universal but even occasional, sporadic abuse is very troubling.  Rights that depend on the forbearance and discretion of individual agents of law enforcement are not rights at all.  And since we are talking about property rights, one would expect to see the libertarian wing of the conservative movement up in (non 2nd amendment) arms about this.  And to be fair, that does seem to be the case at the level of the academic world and commentariat.  But curiously, not much beyond that.  Where are the outraged outpourings of Cruzesque bloated rhetoric about over-reaching enforcement powers?  Where are the dozens of bills and riders to trim it back?  At the level of actual politics, where the rubber hits the road, does solicitude for property rights get trumped by the felt need to be seen as backing law and order in all instances?

That's not so curious at all.  Most non-academic "libertarians" are in fact Jim Crow fascists that co-opt a much more legitimate ideology.

[Valmy]

I think it gets trumped by hating black people. Just as it does with opposition to anything Obama does.

Except these things happen to white people as well.  It just happens to black people more.  It also happens to other people who live in the US who are neither of those things.

[Valmy]

That's not so curious at all.  Most non-academic "libertarians" are in fact Jim Crow fascists that co-opt a much more legitimate ideology.

Well I don't know about that, but Siege's love of Constitutional rights sure doesn't extend to citizen's persons and property.  Yet he styles himself the champion of the people against slavery.  Weird that.