Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Berkut]

Putin is a mad dog, but even he cannot justify the threat that Sarah Palin would present to the country.

[Legbiter]

And now Putin gets to be the peacemaker after having defeated the Ukes. They need to put more Russians into the dirt to raise the cost for him.

[Tamas]

And now Putin gets to be the peacemaker after having defeated the Ukes. They need to put more Russians into the dirt to raise the cost for him.

You have to admit he knows how to make a fool out of people. He started this whole shit, his troops are on the ground, and now plays the mediator of peace between two other parties.

[Martinus]

And now Putin gets to be the peacemaker after having defeated the Ukes. They need to put more Russians into the dirt to raise the cost for him.

You have to admit he knows how to make a fool out of people. He started this whole shit, his troops are on the ground, and now plays the mediator of peace between two other parties.

Nah. His "skill" is that of a schoolyard bully. It's just a testimony to the powerlessness of international community - he makes "a fool out of people" in the same way as a bully tells his victim to "stop hitting yourself".

[derspiess]

It's skill, nonetheless.  May not be an admirable trait, but he's pretty good at what he does.

[Tamas]

Yeah that's what I meant.

[Syt]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29078465

Russian TV lauds 'volunteers' fighting in Ukraine

Russian state television channels have for the first time reported on the funerals of Russian troops who fought alongside pro-Moscow rebels in eastern Ukraine.

The broadcasts repeated the official line that the troops are "volunteers" or travelled to Ukraine on leave rather than in any official capacity. Western leaders accuse the Kremlin of sending regular army units into Ukraine.

The three main channels - Rossiya, Channel One and NTV - ran reports on the funeral of one such "volunteer", Anatoly Travkin, in the city of Kostroma northeast of Moscow.

'Preventing atrocities'

The reports were full of patriotic rhetoric about Slavonic unity and Russian brotherhood.

Mr Travkin was a "volunteer who could not idly observe events in Ukraine", said NTV, which reported that he had just got married six weeks earlier.

His only relative to speak on air, an aunt, was also on-message: "He wanted to serve his motherland. He gave his life for all of us".

NTV interviewed army veterans at the funeral, one of whom expressed pride that his "regimental comrades are carrying out the duty of any Russian person honourably, to prevent the atrocities now taking place in Donetsk and Luhansk regions".

Russians rely overwhelmingly on the state TV channels for news.

'International duty'

Rossiya TV interviewed Russian army veterans who said that fighting for the separatists was a matter of "internationalist duty", echoing the rhetoric of the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and even the Spanish Civil War of the 1930s.

"As long as there is a Russian world, we will stand up for it," said a veteran of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, jabbing his finger at his television audience. "These lads did their duty, their international duty, their fraternal duty, and they should have eternal glory."

Another volunteer, apparently still fighting in Ukraine, spoke of "not letting fascism pass" - a popular slogan of Spanish Republican forces in the 1930s.

Rossiya said up to 4,000 Russians were fighting for the Donetsk and Luhansk militias, and its correspondent interviewed a wounded volunteer in Moscow who had gone to Ukraine "because he realised that otherwise he could not consider himself a man".

'Amazing spiritual impulse'

The volunteers are "united by a heightened sense of justice and historical truth", the correspondent continued, and animated by an "amazing spiritual impulse".

"They speak of their own wounds reluctantly, of their comrades' feats with admiration, and of the Ukrainian punishment units' atrocities with contempt."

Rossiya contrasted the Russian volunteers with foreign fighters on the Ukrainian side, whom it dismissed as "mercenaries". One Russian volunteer from the city of Rostov said he had disarmed a bayonet-wielding American in hand-to-hand combat.

'Heroes'

On Friday the speaker of Russia's upper house of parliament, Valentina Matviyenko, spoke at the funeral of Andrei Stenin, a Russian news agency photographer killed while covering the fighting in Ukraine.

She said "more and more Russian volunteers are joining the ranks of those fighting for their rights, for justice, and for peace in the land of our fraternal nation", and dubbed them "heroes" in a live report on LifeNews TV.

Ms Matviyenko made what appears to be one of the first acknowledgements by such a senior figure that "volunteers" are dying alongside the separatists in Ukraine.

In Kostroma some relatives of paratroopers have been trying to get news of their whereabouts, fearing that they have been sent to Ukraine.

[Tamas]

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/sep/05/ukraine-catastrophic-defeat/

[Tamas]

Everyone was busy chewing the bone Putin threw with the whole white "aid convoy"... "is it stopping?" "is it going?" "is it aid?" "is it weapons?" Now it seems obvious it was a decoy to switch attention from the preparations they had to do for their mini blitzkrieg against the Ukrainians down south.
That article's claims also explain the sudden Ukrainian desire for peace.

I am just hoping that they would rather cede those territories than grant autonomy. With a nominally Ukrainian east controlled by "rebel" military, their country is fucked forever. Of course, Putin may not want them to hand over those territories for the very same reason.

[derspiess]

All seems eerily similar to Georgia.  Government offensive against rebels initially successful until it triggers overt Russian invasion.  Ukrainians should either try to hit back with all they have or spin off that Donbass region, which they'd do best without at this point.  In the case of the latter, evacuate any loyal Ukrainians and let the rest live to regret being ruled by Putin later on; also let Putin rebuild that area on his own dime.

Some sort of gray situation where they have zero control/influence in that region yet it's still a troublesome part of their country would be the worst case for Ukraine, I agree.

[Barrister]

Some sort of gray situation where they have zero control/influence in that region yet it's still a troublesome part of their country would be the worst case for Ukraine, I agree.

Which is precisely why it is what Putin wants.

[Tamas]

All seems eerily similar to Georgia.  Government offensive against rebels initially successful until it triggers overt Russian invasion.  Ukrainians should either try to hit back with all they have or spin off that Donbass region, which they'd do best without at this point.  In the case of the latter, evacuate any loyal Ukrainians and let the rest live to regret being ruled by Putin later on; also let Putin rebuild that area on his own dime.

Some sort of gray situation where they have zero control/influence in that region yet it's still a troublesome part of their country would be the worst case for Ukraine, I agree.

Although I think it would also be a situation that the West would be willing to agree to. A fucked up Ukraine with no Russian Army in it is still better than the Russian border touching the EU at Hungary, Romania, and Poland.

[derspiess]

Some sort of gray situation where they have zero control/influence in that region yet it's still a troublesome part of their country would be the worst case for Ukraine, I agree.

Which is precisely why it is what Putin wants.

Would he be able to refuse the Donbass region of it were publicly offered to him?

[Syt]

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/748380

Estonian security officer detained in Russia's Pskov region

MOSCOW, September 05. /ITAR-TASS/. An officer of the Estonian security police was detained on Friday on the territory of Russia's north-western Pskov region while he was conducting an undercover operation, the public relations center of the Federal Security Service told ITAR-TASS.

"A citizen of Estonia, Eston Kohver, who is an officer of the Estonian security police bureau, was detained on the territory of the Russian Federation," the press center said. "He had a Taurus handgun, an amount of €5,000 in cash, equipment for covert audio recording, and materials indicative of an intelligence mission."

[Syt]

Whereas Estonia says:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/estonian-officer-abducted-near-border-with-russia-1409928475

Estonia Says Officer Abducted Near Russian Border

Security Service Accuses Individuals Coming From Russia; Moscow Says Arrest Occurred in Russia

TALLINN, Estonia—The apparent abduction and detention of an Estonian security officer raised tensions between Estonia and Russia just two days after President Barack Obama came to the country and vowed to defend it as a NATO member.

Estonia's Internal Security Service, known as KAPO, said its officer Eston Kohver was "illegally detained" at gunpoint early Friday while on duty in southeastern Estonia. It said his abductors had come from Russia and had jammed radio communications and used a smoke grenade in the incident.

"It is unacceptable that people who have crossed the Estonian border kidnap an Estonian citizen from Estonian territory," President Toomas Hendrik Ilves tweeted on Friday. "I expect the case to be solved quickly."

Russia's Federal Security Service, or FSB, said Mr. Kohver had been detained on Russian territory as part of a counter-espionage operation. The Interfax news agency quoted the FSB as saying he was carrying a Taurus pistol, 5,000 euros, hidden-recording equipment and a document "that appeared to be an espionage assignment."

KAPO said Mr. Kohver, who was tasked with preventing cross-border criminal activity and the flow of contraband, has been decorated for unspecified services to Estonia.

The director general of KAPO, Arnold Sinisalu, told journalists in the Estonian capital that there were footprints coming from Russia and going back to Russia at the crime scene. He said there had been no similar incidents since the end of the Soviet Union in 1991.

KAPO officials said Russian border guards told them they knew nothing of the incident.

The Estonian Foreign Ministry summoned the Russian ambassador to Estonia Yuri Merzlyakov, seeking an explanation.

Foreign Minister Urmas Paet said the Estonian Embassy in Moscow is also in contact with the Russian Foreign Ministry.

"This is a very disturbing incident. We expect to receive the help and cooperation necessary from Russia in solving this case and bringing the Estonian citizen back to Estonia," Mr. Paet said.

The incident comes just two days after U.S. President Barack Obama visited Estonia to reassure the Baltic nation that its status as a NATO member would assure its border security.

Mr. Obama said he came "to reaffirm the commitment of the United States to the security of Estonia," and proposed an air base in the country as "an ideal location" for hosting a reinforced American military presence in the Baltic region.

Urmas Reinsalu, a former Estonian defense minister, told local media that the detention of the KAPO officer was "an attack against the Republic of Estonia to influence our fortitude."

Mr. Reinsalu said that Russia sought to demonstrate to the West "that we can do whatever we want in this corner of the world, and Obama's words have no collateral."

Estonians have grown nervous after the recent annexation by Russia of the Ukrainian region of Crimea and incursions by Russian troops into eastern Ukraine.

Estonia was occupied by the Soviet Union until 1991 and joined NATO 10 years ago.

Somehow the Russians seem to have a tendency of accidentally wandering across borders. Watch out katmai!