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Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

Started by mongers, August 06, 2014, 03:12:53 PM

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Jacob

Russian aid convoy trucks "nearly empty": http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28799627

...almost as if the convoy was a pretext for something else.

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: DGuller on August 15, 2014, 10:31:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 15, 2014, 10:25:13 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 15, 2014, 10:19:12 AM
I'm shocked, shocked, that Americans think it's A-OK for a big bully nation to invade other countries, fuck them up and then cry foul when the victims fight back.

I'm shocked to see Europe resorting to ethno-tribal politics.
There is no good way to reconcile modern moral standards and ethnically-based countries.  It's hard for Americans to really appreciate that, since our country is a melting pot.  Most countries are not melting pots, or just arbitrary entities on a geopolitical map, formed by an accident of history.  Most countries are a union of people sharing ethnicity and culture.  When the common element that defines the country is compromised, you have an existential threat.

give it a few centuries and americans will understand it too.

garbon

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 15, 2014, 01:04:45 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 15, 2014, 10:31:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 15, 2014, 10:25:13 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 15, 2014, 10:19:12 AM
I'm shocked, shocked, that Americans think it's A-OK for a big bully nation to invade other countries, fuck them up and then cry foul when the victims fight back.

I'm shocked to see Europe resorting to ethno-tribal politics.
There is no good way to reconcile modern moral standards and ethnically-based countries.  It's hard for Americans to really appreciate that, since our country is a melting pot.  Most countries are not melting pots, or just arbitrary entities on a geopolitical map, formed by an accident of history.  Most countries are a union of people sharing ethnicity and culture.  When the common element that defines the country is compromised, you have an existential threat.

give it a few centuries and americans will understand it too.

I don't know why you cheer on barbaric attitudes.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Valmy

Hey I was explaining to Shielbh why it was the way it was.  I get it.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

garbon

Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2014, 01:06:19 PM
Hey I was explaining to Shielbh why it was the way it was.  I get it.

If you truly got it, you'd support it. :D
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: garbon on August 15, 2014, 01:05:47 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 15, 2014, 01:04:45 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 15, 2014, 10:31:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 15, 2014, 10:25:13 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 15, 2014, 10:19:12 AM
I'm shocked, shocked, that Americans think it's A-OK for a big bully nation to invade other countries, fuck them up and then cry foul when the victims fight back.

I'm shocked to see Europe resorting to ethno-tribal politics.
There is no good way to reconcile modern moral standards and ethnically-based countries.  It's hard for Americans to really appreciate that, since our country is a melting pot.  Most countries are not melting pots, or just arbitrary entities on a geopolitical map, formed by an accident of history.  Most countries are a union of people sharing ethnicity and culture.  When the common element that defines the country is compromised, you have an existential threat.

give it a few centuries and americans will understand it too.

I don't know why you cheer on barbaric attitudes.
and I don't know what you continue denying the obvious.
There is one thing, and one thing only, that'll unite mankind: and that's an existential threat to the species. And even it's only a 50/50 chance.
And there's nothing barbaric about it either. just scale. all people identify with certain groups and not others.

Martinus

Speaking of the Russian embargo on EU food - the Kaliningrad district is apparently pretty fucked - they border only EU countries and do not really grow their own food.

DGuller

Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2014, 01:55:49 PM
Speaking of the Russian embargo on EU food - the Kaliningrad district is apparently pretty fucked - they border only EU countries and do not really grow their own food.
I thought Russia was going to make an exception for them?

Tamas

Quote from: DGuller on August 15, 2014, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2014, 01:55:49 PM
Speaking of the Russian embargo on EU food - the Kaliningrad district is apparently pretty fucked - they border only EU countries and do not really grow their own food.
I thought Russia was going to make an exception for them?

In fascist Russia, exception makes you.

Valmy

Um can you make exceptions like that? If I was Euroland I would refuse to sell food to Kaliningrad until Russia lifted the entire embargo.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Martinus

Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2014, 02:27:38 PM
Um can you make exceptions like that? If I was Euroland I would refuse to sell food to Kaliningrad until Russia lifted the entire embargo.

Well, food trade with Russia is an important part of exports for the Baltics and Poland.

Valmy

Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2014, 02:33:50 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2014, 02:27:38 PM
Um can you make exceptions like that? If I was Euroland I would refuse to sell food to Kaliningrad until Russia lifted the entire embargo.

Well, food trade with Russia is an important part of exports for the Baltics and Poland.

Which is why I thought it made sense to use whatever leverage offered itself to keep that food trade going.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Martinus

Not sure if it would work with Putin though. Besides, as Poland, we are used to constant embargoes with Russia - over the last decade they banned our beef, or pork and some vegetables on and off on some false pretenses.

Razgovory

Quote from: Tamas on August 15, 2014, 10:02:07 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 15, 2014, 09:55:40 AM
It's been 70 years, they're Latvians now.

You know nothing Jon Snow. There were roughly 3 million Hungarians left on the other side of the border following the Versailles peace treaty. 96 years later there are still 1.5 millions of them, those who dared openly declaring themselves as such.

Are they also part of an occupation force?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Valmy

Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2014, 02:58:33 PM
Are they also part of an occupation force?

Yep.  Or at least they were during the Nazi take over of Czechoslovakia.  What about this is so confusing Raz?  You are familiar enough with European history to know the dominant theme for the past 200 years surely.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."