News:

And we're back!

Main Menu

Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

Started by mongers, August 06, 2014, 03:12:53 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Tamas


DGuller

Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2014, 10:38:02 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 15, 2014, 10:33:58 AM
Indeed / why I don't have to support their policies even if one can accept why they have come about.

Yep.  This is why I am not a big fan of ethnically based states.  Multinational states are far better.  Except France of course.
How many stable multinational states do we actually have?  And if we exclude former colonial nations that are still establishing their culture, how many does that leave us with?  Switzerland?

celedhring



Tamas

Yeah guys, seem to be a shooting match between openly Russian APCs and Ukrainian forces going on confirmed by both sides, but sure, lets argue over your level of ignorance regarding East Euro politics :P

derspiess

From http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-179-russian-build-up-continues-at-border-as-armour-enters-ukraine/

QuoteRussia Will Do 'Everything Within Our Power' To Fix Ukraine
14:40 (GMT)

Vladimir Putin may have just spelled out his motivation in a conversation with the Finnish President today. RFE/RL reports:

Russian President Vladimir Putin says he has agreed with Finnish President Sauli Niinisto they will "do everything within our power" to end the conflict in Ukraine.

The crisis in Ukraine where government troops are fighting pro-Russian separatists was high on the agenda of talks Putin and Niinisto held on August 15 in Sochi.

Niinisto, speaking through a translator, said he hoped a Russian aid delivery to eastern Ukraine would pave the way for a cease-fire.

Putin also said EU sanctions against Moscow put under threat an entire range of ties between Russia and Finland.

QuoteReuters reports:

A Ukrainian military spokesman said Friday that Ukraine forces have engaged a Russian armored column on Ukrainian soil and "part of it no longer exists."
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Martinus

The funny thing is that you (Yanks) guys often accuse us Euros of being "enlightened balls of light" and whatnot, but yet you seem completely  unwilling to acknowledge reality of ethnic nation states in Europe.

Consider this to be our racial relations and gun control issues. It may not make sense but it is not going away any time soon. :P

Eddie Teach

Quote from: DGuller on August 15, 2014, 10:40:42 AM
How many stable multinational states do we actually have?  And if we exclude former colonial nations that are still establishing their culture, how many does that leave us with?  Switzerland?

Pretty much every country in Europe and the Americas have significant minority populations.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Martinus

Quote from: DGuller on August 15, 2014, 10:40:42 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2014, 10:38:02 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 15, 2014, 10:33:58 AM
Indeed / why I don't have to support their policies even if one can accept why they have come about.

Yep.  This is why I am not a big fan of ethnically based states.  Multinational states are far better.  Except France of course.
How many stable multinational states do we actually have?  And if we exclude former colonial nations that are still establishing their culture, how many does that leave us with?  Switzerland?

And Switzerland is special as it is quite small and very decentralised. Plus it is xenophobic and racist as hell to anyone who does not have the citizenship.

DGuller

Well, looks like now is the watershed moment.  Was this a feint to see if Ukraine will ever have the balls to fire on Russians, or is the shit going down down now?

Martinus

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 15, 2014, 10:48:05 AM
Quote from: DGuller on August 15, 2014, 10:40:42 AM
How many stable multinational states do we actually have?  And if we exclude former colonial nations that are still establishing their culture, how many does that leave us with?  Switzerland?

Pretty much every country in Europe and the Americas have significant minority populations.

I wouldn't say that a country with a "significant minority" qualifies automatically as a multinational state. Plus I think you are overestimating minority populations in Europe. I would say most European countries are 80%+ inhabited by the dominant ethnic group, with the most sizeable groups being citizenship-less immigrants from outside of Europe (and we know how well this is working out).

derspiess

Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2014, 10:48:17 AM
And Switzerland is special as it is quite small and very decentralised. Plus it is xenophobic and racist as hell to anyone who does not have the citizenship.

Translation: they just don't like Poles.




:P
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Martinus

Quote from: derspiess on August 15, 2014, 10:51:43 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2014, 10:48:17 AM
And Switzerland is special as it is quite small and very decentralised. Plus it is xenophobic and racist as hell to anyone who does not have the citizenship.

Translation: they just don't like Poles.




:P

Actually, I am not sure as it is not a likely destination for Poles. :P

But they have these vehemently anti-immigration parties winning elections and whatnot.

DGuller

Quote from: derspiess on August 15, 2014, 10:51:43 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2014, 10:48:17 AM
And Switzerland is special as it is quite small and very decentralised. Plus it is xenophobic and racist as hell to anyone who does not have the citizenship.

Translation: they just don't like Poles.




:P
They don't need to like them, their toilets can flush for hundreds of years and not clog up once.

Martinus

Am I the only one who keeps derspiess and DGuller confused?  :blush: