News:

And we're back!

Main Menu

Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

Started by mongers, August 06, 2014, 03:12:53 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

DGuller

Quote from: Tamas on August 15, 2014, 08:13:14 AM
Quote
By the way, your idol, JKM is the only staunchly pro-Putin politician in Poland.
But I do like him for being a proponent of classical liberalism, in economies if nothing else.
:hmm:  :shutup:

Tamas

Quote from: DGuller on August 15, 2014, 08:27:58 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 15, 2014, 08:13:14 AM
Quote
By the way, your idol, JKM is the only staunchly pro-Putin politician in Poland.
But I do like him for being a proponent of classical liberalism, in economies if nothing else.
:hmm:  :shutup:

WHAT

Martinus

Quote from: Tamas on August 15, 2014, 08:13:14 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2014, 06:49:10 AM
Tamas, I gotta tell you nothing gives me as much joy as watching Polish right wingers tying themselves in knots over their erstwhile support of Orban. Sure go ahead and denounce Western amoral liberalism - but know that this makes you a pal of the likes of China, Russia and Turkey.

By the way, your idol, JKM is the only staunchly pro-Putin politician in Poland. Hopefully this will make even his idiot supporters stop voting for him.

He is not my "idol" since as you point out, often trolling the general consensus seems more important for him than just being a politician for his side. But I do like him for being a proponent of classical liberalism, in economies if nothing else. Need more of that in Eastern Europe.

He does not stand out as a "proponent of classical liberalism", since the region's economy (at least in Poland) is already highly deregulated and laissez-faire. What he is a proponent of is a complete dismantling of any safety nets or things like socialised education or healthcare (I believe he believes that even primary education should be privatised and should be paid out of pockets of the parents). In a country like Poland, where the public sector is already very weak, things like this do not make him an economic genius, but a sociopath with serious empathy issues.

The fact that he used the word "nigger" in his first European Parliament's speech he gave, and believes that women in marriage cannot be raped and that disabled children should not be showed on tv not to create bad role models for "normal children" (or that fact that both Wilders and LePen did not form a group with him in the European Parliament, saying he is too "extreme" and "controversial") really shows that this guy is human garbage.

Jacob

Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2014, 08:43:21 AM
He does not stand out as a "proponent of classical liberalism", since the region's economy (at least in Poland) is already highly deregulated and laissez-faire. What he is a proponent of is a complete dismantling of any safety nets or things like socialised education or healthcare (I believe he believes that even primary education should be privatised and should be paid out of pockets of the parents). In a country like Poland, where the public sector is already very weak, things like this do not make him an economic genius, but a sociopath with serious empathy issues.

Makes sense that Tamas likes him, then.

derspiess

"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Tamas

Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2014, 08:43:21 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 15, 2014, 08:13:14 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2014, 06:49:10 AM
Tamas, I gotta tell you nothing gives me as much joy as watching Polish right wingers tying themselves in knots over their erstwhile support of Orban. Sure go ahead and denounce Western amoral liberalism - but know that this makes you a pal of the likes of China, Russia and Turkey.

By the way, your idol, JKM is the only staunchly pro-Putin politician in Poland. Hopefully this will make even his idiot supporters stop voting for him.

He is not my "idol" since as you point out, often trolling the general consensus seems more important for him than just being a politician for his side. But I do like him for being a proponent of classical liberalism, in economies if nothing else. Need more of that in Eastern Europe.

He does not stand out as a "proponent of classical liberalism", since the region's economy (at least in Poland) is already highly deregulated and laissez-faire. What he is a proponent of is a complete dismantling of any safety nets or things like socialised education or healthcare (I believe he believes that even primary education should be privatised and should be paid out of pockets of the parents). In a country like Poland, where the public sector is already very weak, things like this do not make him an economic genius, but a sociopath with serious empathy issues.

The fact that he used the word "nigger" in his first European Parliament's speech he gave, and believes that women in marriage cannot be raped and that disabled children should not be showed on tv not to create bad role models for "normal children" (or that fact that both Wilders and LePen did not form a group with him in the European Parliament, saying he is too "extreme" and "controversial") really shows that this guy is human garbage.

I can't fathom why on earth some Hungarian IT guy would suddenly became his supporter. Do you know some idiot Pole there in London who is a fan of his or something?

:yeahright:

Martinus

Quote from: Tamas on August 15, 2014, 08:51:12 AM
:yeahright:
Do you dispute anything I said in the first two paragraphs (deleted the third as it was an ad hom).

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

alfred russel

Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 15, 2014, 04:15:20 AM
Why doesn't he just leave the EU and rejoin the Warsaw Pact?

Warsaw might resist that arrangement.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Razgovory

Quote from: Berkut on August 15, 2014, 01:36:43 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2014, 01:21:54 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 15, 2014, 01:05:11 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 14, 2014, 10:01:26 PM
Next stop American citizenship only for those who speak American. :punk:

Latvia is not the US.

It is foolish to try to pretend like their existential concerns have any parallel to the US.

Do you think such "existential concerns" trump human rights?

As in all questions of this sort, it depends on the concerns and what specific rights are being restricted and whether the threat justifies the restrictions.

My point is simply that garbon is a fool to try to judge Latvia situation by US standards - the US does not have to deal with anything like the threat they do now, and have in the past.

And let's be honest, our own record on dealing with perceived foreigners when we are under a threat doesn't leave us much room to be preaching to others. We rounded up people and shoved them into concentration camps when we had much less of a threat to us than Latvia is facing.

Thing is these aren't immigrants.  These are people who were born there.  And simply because the US has violated the civil rights of it's citizens in the past doesn't mean can criticize  these actions as they happen now.  Besides this "existential threat" hasn't actually materialized.  There is no big crisis on whether or not Latvia should be allowed to exist.  This is nothing less then petty tribalism, nationalism and "getting even".
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Tamas

Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2014, 08:54:21 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 15, 2014, 08:51:12 AM
:yeahright:
Do you dispute anything I said in the first two paragraphs (deleted the third as it was an ad hom).

I am having troubles imagining Poland being laisez faire haven, although I am blindly conceding that it is better in that regard than Hungary.

And I would never want JKM himself to rule a country, but he does say a lot of things I agree with. And some stupid idiotic things to which are then convenient points to focus on for those who want to dismiss libertarian ideas as idiotic.

And I would much rather talk about a Hungarian libertarian politician but there isn't any.

Anyways, lets get back on topic.

Tamas

Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2014, 09:49:40 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 15, 2014, 01:36:43 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2014, 01:21:54 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 15, 2014, 01:05:11 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 14, 2014, 10:01:26 PM
Next stop American citizenship only for those who speak American. :punk:

Latvia is not the US.

It is foolish to try to pretend like their existential concerns have any parallel to the US.

Do you think such "existential concerns" trump human rights?

As in all questions of this sort, it depends on the concerns and what specific rights are being restricted and whether the threat justifies the restrictions.

My point is simply that garbon is a fool to try to judge Latvia situation by US standards - the US does not have to deal with anything like the threat they do now, and have in the past.

And let's be honest, our own record on dealing with perceived foreigners when we are under a threat doesn't leave us much room to be preaching to others. We rounded up people and shoved them into concentration camps when we had much less of a threat to us than Latvia is facing.

Thing is these aren't immigrants.  These are people who were born there.  And simply because the US has violated the civil rights of it's citizens in the past doesn't mean can criticize  these actions as they happen now.  Besides this "existential threat" hasn't actually materialized.  There is no big crisis on whether or not Latvia should be allowed to exist.  This is nothing less then petty tribalism, nationalism and "getting even".

Those people, although I agree they probably haven't made that choice personally, are from the nation who forcefully occupied the Baltic States. In fact the only reason they could move there was that they were under the umbrella of their own occupying army and were considered the "same country". They are remnants of an occupation force.

Eddie Teach

To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Valmy

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 15, 2014, 09:55:40 AM
It's been 70 years, they're Latvians now.

That is not how it works in the old world dude.  The Jews of Warsaw were there for like 400 years and that did not make the Poles.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Tamas

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 15, 2014, 09:55:40 AM
It's been 70 years, they're Latvians now.

You know nothing Jon Snow. There were roughly 3 million Hungarians left on the other side of the border following the Versailles peace treaty. 96 years later there are still 1.5 millions of them, those who dared openly declaring themselves as such.