Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[grumbler]

Did they show machine guns?  I thought it was a commissar and some officers shooting their retreating soldiers.

Waves or unarmed soldiers, likely not, but a good number of unarmed soldiers in some of the early battles, yes.  Some soldiers were reporting for duty without their weapons and they were either sent to combat without their guns or held back in reserve until enough soldiers died so they could advance and pick up the weapons on the filed.

I don't doubt Russian soldiers fought bravely.  I doubt they were braver than any other armies, without the threat or being shot by their own officers.

Why are you still debating the details of the fantasy movie?

The Germans thought that the Soviet soldiers were braver than most armies (not "any other army" - that's a silly strawman), and the whole "threat of being shot by their officers" canard has long ago been discarded by serious historians.  The Russians did have NKVD regiments that were set up as what they called "blocking forces" to apprehend deserters and soldiers retreating without orders, but they didn't shoot them (except a small percentage sentenced to death by courts martial 'pour encourager les autres) because shooting your own troops when you are short of troops is moronic even by military standards.

[Zoupa]

Being sent to the gulag for the standard 8-10 years, a lot would have preferred to be shot.

[grumbler]

Being sent to the gulag for the standard 8-10 years, a lot would have preferred to be shot.

Was 8-10 years the "standard" for those sentenced to the gulag?  If someone sentenced to the gulag wanted to kill themselves, there were lots of ways they could do it.  I'm not sure that "a lot" of those sentenced did so.

Not that I have any idea what this has to do with the war in Ukraine.

[Zoupa]

You tell me. I was talking logistics and corruption being a chronic problem for russian militaries when you decided to jump in about the heroic vatniks of WW2.

Not sure the Katyn poles, the Home Army being slaughtered in Warsaw while the Red Army watched, or the millions of rape victims would agree, by the way.

[grumbler]

You tell me. I was talking logistics and corruption being a chronic problem for russian militaries when you decided to jump in about the heroic vatniks of WW2.

Not sure the Katyn poles, the Home Army being slaughtered in Warsaw while the Red Army watched, or the millions of rape victims would agree, by the way.

   Are you saying that the poor logistics and corruption of the Russian/Soviet militaries occurred because somebody something somehow 8-10 years gulag something something someone preferred to be shot?

[Zoupa]

 

[Threviel]

The bravery of Russian soldiers when defending Mother Russia is difficult to argue against. Just look at the Napoleonic wars (Fought Napoleon at his prime to standstill at Borodino and then outmaneuvered and  kicked his ass back to Paris), Crimean War (Technologically inferior with rifles that barely reached the allies they still stood and fought), WWI (Stood and fought for years despite the extreme incompetence of their leaders) and WWII (Stood and fought for years despite the evilness and incompetence of their leaders, lots and lots of extreme acts of courage from day 1).

When invading other countries willy-nilly it's another matter.

[grumbler]

The bravery of Russian soldiers when defending Mother Russia is difficult to argue against. Just look at the Napoleonic wars (Fought Napoleon at his prime to standstill at Borodino and then outmaneuvered and  kicked his ass back to Paris), Crimean War (Technologically inferior with rifles that barely reached the allies they still stood and fought), WWI (Stood and fought for years despite the extreme incompetence of their leaders) and WWII (Stood and fought for years despite the evilness and incompetence of their leaders, lots and lots of extreme acts of courage from day 1).

When invading other countries willy-nilly it's another matter.

Good point.  Maybe it's more accurate to say that the Russian soldiers have historically been remarkably brave on the defense, not so much on the offense.

[Josquius]

Russia really does seem to be turning full north Korea. Signing and then shitting on deals just to show it can


BBC News - Ukraine war: Explosions rock Ukrainian port hours after grain deal
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62276392

[Legbiter]

Heavy fighting in Kherson. Ukrainians on the attack.

[Solmyr]

Stray kitten rescued from Snake Island. His name is Zmiy (Snake).

[Jacob]

Russia really does seem to be turning full north Korea. Signing and then shitting on deals just to show it can


BBC News - Ukraine war: Explosions rock Ukrainian port hours after grain deal
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62276392

And it's not like it's a surprise to anyone. Mostly it's just an embarrassment for Erdogan.

[HVC]

Russia really does seem to be turning full north Korea. Signing and then shitting on deals just to show it can


BBC News - Ukraine war: Explosions rock Ukrainian port hours after grain deal
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62276392

And it's not like it's a surprise to anyone. Mostly it's just an embarrassment for Erdogan.

That's what he gets for making Putin wait a minute for a tv meet and greet I guess

[DGuller]

Arestovich claims that a couple of thousands of Russians are surrounded near Kherson, and that they requested a green corridor out of the cauldron. 

[DGuller]

I remember Peter Ebbesen's AAR on one of the beta builds of Victoria, many years ago.  He decided to finance his empire by just endless borrowing.  Sure, he was defaulting repeatedly, eventually every day, but the lenders just kept lending him money at ever higher interest rates.  I wonder what those AI lenders were thinking?  "Yes, he did default on his obligations 200 times this year, but if I just lend money to him at a high enough interest rate, it would be worth the risk." 

Those lenders were still more wise than the people signing agreements with Putin.  I guess at some point Russia decided that they have exactly zero intention to fulfill their obligations on anything that they agree to, unless it suits their interests.  The advantage of that strategy is that any time someone signs an agreement with Russia pricing in more than exact zero expectation of Russia fulfilling it, Russia wins.  Of course, that strategy only works if you believe that every agreement is a zero-sum game, because eventually you're going to close yourself off to mutually beneficial arrangements.