Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[mongers]

Figure it out. Don't be surprised if you encounter scorn from others. Your country is shit right now. It's insulting and threatening all its former allies. You're not a victim and you share responsibility.

Defend your own continent. The put up or shut up moment for Europe was 3 years ago.

How does Europe or any other country defend themselves from a slow-burn Russian take over of the White House? 

[Darth Wagtaros]

Figure it out. Don't be surprised if you encounter scorn from others. Your country is shit right now. It's insulting and threatening all its former allies. You're not a victim and you share responsibility.

Defend your own continent. The put up or shut up moment for Europe was 3 years ago.

How does Europe or any other country defend themselves from a slow-burn Russian take over of the White House? 

slow burn takeover of Beijing.

[Jacob]

slow burn takeover of Beijing.

Of or by?

Are you suggesting Europe take over Beijing somehow? Or are you proposing the EU lets itself slowly be taken over by Beijing?

[Jacob]

Defend your own continent. The put up or shut up moment for Europe was 3 years ago.

Yeah. The best time for Europe to have gotten its shit together was three years ago. Second best time is now.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah. The best time for Europe to have gotten its shit together was three years ago. Second best time is now.

Yes - we need to start now. I had thought 2022 would change things. Or 9 years ago when Trump was first elected and Europe experienced a wake up moment.

Or for that matter since 2012 when Robert Gates gave his leaving thoughts as Secretary of Defense to a NATO summit:

With respect to Europe, for the better part of six decades there has been relatively little doubt or debate in the United States about the value and necessity of the transatlantic alliance.  The benefits of a Europe whole, prosperous and free after being twice devastated by wars requiring American intervention was self evident.  Thus, for most of the Cold War U.S. governments could justify defense investments and costly forward bases that made up roughly 50 percent of all NATO military spending.  But some two decades after the collapse of the Berlin Wall, the U.S. share of NATO defense spending has now risen to more than 75 percent – at a time when politically painful budget and benefit cuts are being considered at home.

The blunt reality is that there will be dwindling appetite and patience in the U.S. Congress – and in the American body politic writ large – to expend increasingly precious funds on behalf of nations that are apparently unwilling to devote the necessary resources or make the necessary changes to be serious and capable partners in their own defense.  Nations apparently willing and eager for American taxpayers to assume the growing security burden left by reductions in European defense budgets.

Indeed, if current trends in the decline of European defense capabilities are not halted and reversed,  Future U.S. political leaders– those for whom the Cold War was not the formative experience that it was for me – may not consider the return on America's investment in NATO worth the cost.

[...]

It is not too late for Europe to get its defense institutions and security relationships on track.  But it will take leadership from political leaders and policy makers on this continent.  It cannot be coaxed, demanded or imposed from across the Atlantic.

We've had Russia invade Georgia, Gates' warning in 2012, Russia take Crimea, the first Trump administration and then the 2022 invasion. All significant "wake up calls" that launched a thousand think pieces on European security but did not lead to much change, outside of Poland and the Baltics. So sadly I'm not hopeful - but it is within the gift of European leaders as Gates pointed out.

From a purely British perspective, there were crowds outside Downing Street to cheer Zelensky when he arrived - public opinion is on the right side. I think they want leaders to lead on this.

[Zanza]

Definitely look out for your own house, the necessity of which Syt's post below yours shows.  If you don't have the political levers to deal with fifth columnists, find the political will to create some.

The EU is based on the principle that playing by the rules creates a mutual benefit. The actors are still sovereign states after all. There is a tipping point where Hungary or Slovakia are no longer a nuisance, but a threat for the goals of the other members. When that happens, rewriting the rules can go quickly. I think that's far off yet though. Also because the other countries want the EU to have the moral high ground.

[viper37]

You never voted Republican in the last 30 years and always worked to promote the opposition parties?

I have voted Republican in the last 30 years.

Ok.

So, let me get this straight.

You and Raz are not responsible for Trump because you did not vote for him.

You voted for the people who enabled him, but you are still not responsible for him.

However, the Palestinians of Gaza who voted or not voted for the Hamas at some point in their life (2006 was the last election) are all responsible for the attacks of Oct 7th 2023 and the subsequent retaliation by Israel.

Am I getting this right?

Seems like a cop out to me.

What's more, at some point, we all piled on Monoriu for going with the wind.  What many Americans are doing today, simply waiting until something happens.

[viper37]

Defend your own continent. The put up or shut up moment for Europe was 3 years ago.

Yeah. The best time for Europe to have gotten its shit together was three years ago. Second best time is now.

What did Canada do with its warning calls?  It elected Trudeau who promised to slashed defence spending and pussyfooted around.  We are not blameless either.

[The Brain]

If the US didn't want to be scorned and hated, then it shouldn't have aligned with Russia against Ukraine and talked about minerals and deals when there's a war on and people are dying. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Fuck around and find out. Loose lips sink ships.

I'm sure it can be painful to wake up one morning and one's country is garbage and rightfully hated by every sane person on the planet. I can't lie to you about your country, but... you have my sympathies.

[Valmy]

Next time I leave the country I will work on my Canadian accent.

[Sophie Scholl]

Next time I leave the country I will work on my Canadian accent.

I have folks think I'm Canadian already. A lot. Including in places right on and near the border like Buffalo and Cleveland. Heck, when I went to Toronto, no one believed I was from the States. Even after showing them my license. 

[Admiral Yi]

Ok.

So, let me get this straight.

You and Raz are not responsible for Trump because you did not vote for him.

You voted for the people who enabled him, but you are still not responsible for him.

However, the Palestinians of Gaza who voted or not voted for the Hamas at some point in their life (2006 was the last election) are all responsible for the attacks of Oct 7th 2023 and the subsequent retaliation by Israel.

Am I getting this right?

Seems like a cop out to me.

What's more, at some point, we all piled on Monoriu for going with the wind.  What many Americans are doing today, simply waiting until something happens.

I don't understand what you mean by enabled.

I feel more sympathy for Palestinians who don't support Hamas than I do for those who do.  I would like you to extend the same courtesy to me.

If it comes to war and Canada drops a bomb on me, I will not cry about the unfairness.

[Zoupa]

Figure it out. Don't be surprised if you encounter scorn from others. Your country is shit right now. It's insulting and threatening all its former allies. You're not a victim and you share responsibility.

Defend your own continent. The put up or shut up moment for Europe was 3 years ago.

Cool. Not sure what that has to do with fighting the slide into fascism in the US but I'm glad you got that off your chest, snowflake.

[crazy canuck]

Next time I leave the country I will work on my Canadian accent.

Wouldn't be the first time Americans pretended to be Canadians when travelling abroad.

[viper37]

I don't understand what you mean by enabled.

I feel more sympathy for Palestinians who don't support Hamas than I do for those who do.  I would like you to extend the same courtesy to me.

If it comes to war and Canada drops a bomb on me, I will not cry about the unfairness.

Republicans have caved in to the extremists of the movement for a while now.  At least since the 70s, under Nixon.

It's been a gradual shift.  The Tea Party and Maga didn't appear out of nowhere, suddenly, one day.  It's been a slow rising movement inside the Republican party that enabled it, thrived on it and let it grow.  That party should have been wiped out from Congress after the debacle of the Iraq war and the 2008 recession.  It only grew stronger.

History has been harsh on Germany (and Austria) for not resisting nazism enough when it began.  I'm seeing images of the protests right now, and there's nothing more but an handful of people protesting each time in a country of millions.

At most, there are angry townhall meetings in Republican States.  From people complaining that they are the ones being hurt, not the others.

If it comes to war and Canada drops a bomb on me, I will not cry about the unfairness.

It would be an American-made bomb with an American fighter/bomber...