Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[garbon]

Even more than Russians all of you have a responsibility for how it's going. And all of you have a duty to resist what is happening.

Can you suggest some concrete actions that can be taken?

That's exactly what Russians reply when they try to deflect a question about why Putin is still in power.

I guess it is far easier to just say resist and then look on smugly...

[The Brain]

Holding all Americans individually responsible for Trump would be silly.

Whatever an American has done or what they think of Trump, the POTUS speaks and acts for the US. That's what matters.

[Grey Fox]

I've championed left and progressive values for over 20 years. I've done plenty to influence Americans into a better world.

How so?

I have failed but now the responsibility is on your shoulders, what will you do? Your country myth is that you will fight against Tyranny. Tyranny is here. Wake up.

Why do you get to give up now? If this is really the end of peace as it is being posited, why aren't you devoting all efforts to an attempt to make a difference?

For the past 2 months Americans on the internet have made multiple jokes about the 51st state and taking Canadian sovereignty away. When they get called on it, they often react, like you and Yi did, by saying they didn't vote for Trump.

Yeah, I give up. They have shown they are no friends and will fall inline with the Tyranny of Putin and Krasnov. No, I am not helping Americans anymore. I'm getting ready for something quite the opposite actually.

[Jacob]

I guess it is far easier to just say resist and then look on smugly...

Americans are famously receptive to non-Americans telling them how to fix their problems.

I know it's a difficult situation, but looking at others to tell you how to react and act comes across as rejecting your own agency and civic responsibility. Seems reasonable to me that the primary responsibility for fixing problems with American democracy and American society lies with Americans.

I sympathize with decent Americans everywhere. What's happening to your country is agonizing and individual seem powerless. There are many emotions involved when non-Americans wish for Americans to act and resist, but in my perception smugness is nowhere near the top.

[The Brain]

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but the US embassy in Stockholm has taken down its "We Stand With Ukraine" banner. Apparently there are still Americans who think it's important to avoid lies.

[garbon]

I've championed left and progressive values for over 20 years. I've done plenty to influence Americans into a better world.

How so?

I have failed but now the responsibility is on your shoulders, what will you do? Your country myth is that you will fight against Tyranny. Tyranny is here. Wake up.

Why do you get to give up now? If this is really the end of peace as it is being posited, why aren't you devoting all efforts to an attempt to make a difference?

For the past 2 months Americans on the internet have made multiple jokes about the 51st state and taking Canadian sovereignty away. When they get called on it, they often react, like you and Yi did, by saying they didn't vote for Trump.

Yeah, I give up. They have shown they are no friends and will fall inline with the Tyranny of Putin and Krasnov. No, I am not helping Americans anymore. I'm getting ready for something quite the opposite actually.

I can realise this is an emotional time. I'm not sure why Yi or I are conflated with those making jokes about Canada.

Also, I'm not sure you can actually wish America away. The US wouldn't be such an issue if it were not so entangled with everyone.

[garbon]

Americans are famously receptive to non-Americans telling them how to fix their problems.

I gave an example of how to help while pretending to be American.

I know it's a difficult situation, but looking at others to tell you how to react and act comes across as rejecting your own agency and civic responsibility. Seems reasonable to me that the primary responsibility for fixing problems with American democracy and American society lies with Americans.

And it comes across as not helpful when non-Americans are saying Americans should resist but then (bar Thrievel) get annoyed when ask to show what that means, aka how does one meaningfully resist. It also smacks od dissonance to note the US situation as a big worldwide issue but it is only the Americans who lost the election who can take agency. If this is an existential issue as said, how can anyone sit on the sidelines?

I sympathize with decent Americans everywhere. What's happening to your country is agonizing and individual seem powerless. There are many emotions involved when non-Americans wish for Americans to act and resist, but in my perception smugness is nowhere near the top.

True, perhaps I should have said condescension.

[Threviel]

I mean, we could try and declare war and force a government change, but that would only result in the US having to smack us up and then occupy every other western state and it would not be good.

Apart from that we can wish you good luck and come with sage advice.

And look out for our own house.

[Syt]

Statement by Robert Fico (Slovakia):

[DGuller]

I mean, we could try and declare war and force a government change, but that would only result in the US having to smack us up and then occupy every other western state and it would not be good.

Apart from that we can wish you good luck and come with sage advice.

And look out for our own house.

Definitely look out for your own house, the necessity of which Syt's post below yours shows.  If you don't have the political levers to deal with fifth columnists, find the political will to create some.

[Tamas]

Statement by Robert Fico (Slovakia):

Fico won by the direct help of Orban and is now clearly in the pocket of Putin as a result.

[mongers]

Statement by Robert Fico (Slovakia):

Didn't fringe Slovak nationalists back Munich or at the 1939 dissolution of the Czechoslovak republic?

[Zoupa]

The thing with democracies is that the buck stops at the people. In the end it's the responsibility of the people to choose the government. All of you gathered in the elections and collectively all of you decided on this government, whether you voted for it or not.

It is a collective responsibility that you must all share.

Lovely sentiment but that really doesn't suggest a path forward.

I suppose you can be hostile to any Americans you encounter but that probably won't accomplish much.

You're using the exact same arguments russians have been using  for decades now. "Not all russians", "I didn't vote for him", "What do you want ME to do exactly" etc etc ad nauseam.

Figure it out. Don't be surprised if you encounter scorn from others. Your country is shit right now. It's insulting and threatening all its former allies. You're not a victim and you share responsibility.

[Sheilbh]

I do not see it as drastic as you do. No longer a friend, not yet an enemy.

Might change if the United States attack Denmark or Canada over Trump's imperialist claims.

However, we obviously need to try to lower our risks from the US (and China, Russia, gulf emirates) when it comes to raw materials, critical technical components and software/cloud infrastructure. And of course a military build up.

That's hard to though, but is what Europe should work on now. I do not see it though. I see internal squabbles,fifth columnists for Trump/Putin, and unfitting austerity rules.

I agree - but I'd add that there is greater dependency on the US than China or Russia. Which means Europe's position will need to be I think morally flexible, opportunistic and very realist until there is capacity for Europe to guarantee its own security (honestly I think every European leader should maybe look at Erdogan for lessons in terms of foreign policy as a balancing power).

The raw materials point is challenging as Europe is resource poor. This has been a line running through European politics since the war - first with the idea of imperial powers forming a "Eurafrica" (which is just being written about and "rediscovered" historically now but is, for example, in the Treaty of Rome), for Germany and some other countries the relations with the USSR and Russia (which had previously been a sore point for the US-European relations) and, for France and Britain and also with Turkey, the Middle East (with Italy running through all in a very successful way). One fear I have is that Europe will need to work on at least one of those relationships but they may cause tensions and there may be disagreements over which and how - I've mentioned it before but France and Italy arming opposing militias in Libya, you can also see Russia trying to tempt parts of Europe back into an energy and raw materials relationship etc.

Similarly Europe has really great technical companies at the cutting edge in certain specific sectors but not really in digital infrastructure like cloud computing, as well as platforms etc (to the best of my knowledge) or AI (Mistral is the closest). That's going to be difficult to build - and it will be very energy intensive which is difficult given the raw material point above.

But Europe under Biden had been intending to be "friendshoring" with the US (and as part of the US network) in relation to critical raw materials - that agreement is still in place but I think Europe needs to look again at alternatives.

Nothing insurmountable but the choices of European leaders over the last 35 years create make the job of current European leaders very challenging.