Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[Josquius]

With starmer the other day trump was remarkably decent bt his standards. It was just vance who came in with "this guy on twitter says this thing so it's gotta be true" idiocy.
Sad to see trump couldn't keep it up with two in a row. What was he demanding...

I guess future tactics are to bring someone along with a colouring book for vance?

[Tamas]

Well fuck.

Doesn't change much. Soldiers estimate they have enough american kit to last at least til the end on 2025. The big news on the front is the ZSU has deployed jammers everywhere and the russians glide bombs are now hitting random fields instead of their intended target. That's been a huge morale boost.

russia's assaults have sharply decreased too. A cease-fire is what putin needs right now.

And what I am hoping is that this American shitshow is actually decreasing Russian morale going into further assaults. Why die now when the Big Bad Enemey is about to bail on Ukraine?

[mongers]

Vance is gargling Putins balls, big time.

Heh, Good to see you back Formtia.


I'm pretty sure no ancestor or relative of Vance has behaved so despicably at he did today, especially given his position of power.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Yeah Vance really turned that.

Why the Vice President is even at something like this makes no sense from a traditional standpoint. Truman wasn't sitting beside Roosevelt at Yalta. Hell Pence wasn't sitting there with Trump in his first term at things like this.

But clearly he was there to sabotage the whole thing and we saw what he did with Zelensky's very tame comments earlier, he spun them as some kind of grave insult to the clown prince of Trumpistan. So mission accomplished I guess.

The oligarchy needs to be on hand to make sure Trump does what they want him to do. Can't risk letting him act on his own.

[Syt]

Was actually surprised that Musk wasn't in this. But then there wouldn't have been a question from a dickhead reporter why Zelenskyy doesn't wear a suit and why he disrespects the Oval Office that way, because Elon does it all the time.

[Syt]

[The Minsky Moment]

Yeah Vance really turned that.

JD Vance's behavior was instantly recognizable to me, because I've seen it dozens of times.  Lawyer being a complete dick in a deposition to show off to his idiot client.  This was a set up - Vance was revved up to go, found his opening, and then off to the races.

There is no managing Trump in this context, no reason to do so.  Trump is never going to give Ukraine anything other than turd sandwiches in different wrappers.  This was always about him doing his DEAL where he can take credit for saving the world and collect his imaginary Nobel.  He isn't (and won't) engage in even a semblance of real diplomatic negotiation, even if he knew how to do  it, which he doesn't.  The plan has always been to cram down some shit deal where Ukraine surrenders sovereignty over vast areas of territory and gets nothing in return other than a temporary cease fire, to be broken the second it suits Putin to break it.  There is no point in being servile and ingratiating just so you can reduce the turd content of the sandwich 5 percent.

Ukraine will fight on; they will continue to die to safeguard our security. Hopefully the Euros will step up and get their backs.  And hopefully private Americans can step up and get funds to Ukraine; we should have a little extra to work with as the IRS is shutting down, at least until our entire society melts down.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah Vance really turned that.

JD Vance's behavior was instantly recognizable to me, because I've seen it dozens of times.  Lawyer being a complete dick in a deposition to show off to his idiot client. 

Yep

[Syt]

Agreed that it looked like a setup. Trying to give a fig leaf coverage of "well, we tried."

Meanwhile, press release:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/02/president-trump-vp-vance-are-standing-up-for-americans/

President Donald J. Trump and Vice President JD Vance will always stand up for the interests of the American people and those who respect the United States' position in the world — and will never allow the American people to be taken advantage of.

President Trump: "Let me tell you, you don't have the cards. With us, you have the cards — but without us, you don't have any cards."

More than half (52%) of Ukrainians want a quick end to the war and believe Ukraine "should be open to ceding some territory in exchange for peace," according to a November Gallup poll.
Since martial law was declared in Ukraine, 1,000,050 Ukrainians have been drafted into military service. In October 2024, Ukraine announced it would be drafting another 160,000 — bringing the total number of conscripted Ukrainians to 1,160,050.
The average age of Ukrainian troops is 43 years old.
"Even if the West did come through with all the weapons they have pledged, 'we don't have the men to use them,' one of Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky's close aides told Time's Simon Shuster, revealing that the average age of a Ukrainian soldier has already reached 43."
One of Zelenskyy's closest aides told TIME in 2023 that he is "[deluding] himself ... We're out of options. We're not winning. But try telling him that."
The Ukrainian army is facing rising desertions as "ill-trained and exhausted soldiers [go] AWOL," with the military further strained by struggles in recruiting and the "arrests of respected and popular combat officers."
President Trump: "You're gambling with World War III."

Zelesnkyy himself has acknowledged that the situation in Ukraine could lead to WWIII, and that without U.S. aid, they would lose: "A third world war could start in Ukraine, continue in Israel, and move on from there to Asia, and then explode somewhere else."
President Trump: "I gave you the javelins to take out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheets."

President Trump gave anti-tank javelin missiles to Ukraine, while Obama gave non-lethal aid only, including blankets.
EURACTIV: "Poroshenko asks Obama for weapons, obtains blankets"
President Trump approved lethal weapons sales to Ukraine in 2017: "The new arms include American-made Javelin anti-tank missiles, U.S. officials said."
President Trump approved a $39 million sale of defensive lethal weapons to Ukraine in 2019: "The new package will include Javelin anti-tank weapons, with one U.S. official saying it includes 150 missiles and two launchers."
Vice President Vance: "You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October."

Zelenskyy was called out for campaigning against President Trump in Pennsylvania.
"Zelenskyy was flown to Pennsylvania in an Air Force C-17 plane."

[Legbiter]

The Ukrainian Ambassador:

   

I'm surprised Zelensky flubbed this part so badly. You're meeting an elderly American boomer who is used to quiet deference from employees/vassals. All he really had to do was smile and nod. He's basically meeting a east european strongman (Trump). Show him the same deference a local chivnovnik would show the Potato King Luka when he invites you over to go over the 5 year plan.

[Tamas]

   

I'm surprised Zelensky flubbed this part so badly. You're meeting an elderly American boomer who is used to quiet deference from employees/vassals. All he really had to do was smile and nod. He's basically meeting a east european strongman (Trump). Show him the same deference a local chivnovnik would show the Potato King Luka when he invites you over to go over the 5 year plan.

And then what? He looks like a meek servile idiot smiling while those two humiliate him and his nation, and for what? What was on the table to gain by that? Nothing we are aware of. Last thing that leaked was a contract to make Ukraine a US colony for absolutely nothing in return.

[HVC]

Going was lose lose. Guess he couldn't just beg off a send a diplomat.

[crazy canuck]

Going was lose lose. Guess he couldn't just beg off a send a diplomat.

I don't agree. He had to go, if for no other reason than to show Europe that it really is up to them now.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Going was lose lose. Guess he couldn't just beg off a send a diplomat.

I don't agree. He had to go, if for no other reason than to show Europe that it really is up to them now.

yeah, but I fear Europe will flounder...

[crazy canuck]

Going was lose lose. Guess he couldn't just beg off a send a diplomat.

I don't agree. He had to go, if for no other reason than to show Europe that it really is up to them now.

yeah, but I fear Europe will flounder...

Yes, but after Trump was elected, that is the only viable option now.