Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[HVC]

[Josquius]

If he means Main Battle Tanks the issue IMO is the Ukrainian capacity to operate the Abrams would be very suspect, honestly I have the same concerns about the Leopard 2s. These are high tech, very expensive per-unit tanks that require a lot of systems and infrastructure in place. I am not talking about training crews--that is relatively easy, I mean more the logistics around them.

Army man in the Spanish OT that has experience with both tanks claims that Leos are actually harder to maintain than Abramses, lots of finicky tech.

I'm with you, not so sure western tanks can realistically make a difference here given the industrial and logistics challenges involved - which is troubling.

However if a Leo gets damaged, its pretty easy to ship it back to Poland for repairs by those who know it, or to drive a truck right up to the parts factory in Germany.

Maybe this is not nice but I have to admit I enjoyed the Russian propaganda chick screaming in pain after playing soldier and getting sniped in the knee. She and her ilk are making it possible to keep the war going and have thus blood on their hands:

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1616891317203922944?s=20&t=9HI49A6OcFh5327_2vCMxg

Briefly looking down at the comments I like the idea that this is a Russian bullet.

[Tamas]

Briefly looking down at the comments I like the idea that this is a Russian bullet.

I think that's unlikely. Surely she wasn't videoing herself right at the very frontline of some fluid engagement, and I imagine the odds of a Russian not recognising he is target-hunting behind his own lines AND not recognising Russian uniforms must be pretty slim.

More likely, the area isn't as firmly in Russian hands as they claim.

[Josquius]

Briefly looking down at the comments I like the idea that this is a Russian bullet.

I think that's unlikely. Surely she wasn't videoing herself right at the very frontline of some fluid engagement, and I imagine the odds of a Russian not recognising he is target-hunting behind his own lines AND not recognising Russian uniforms must be pretty slim.

More likely, the area isn't as firmly in Russian hands as they claim.

Unlikely sure.
But the narrative I have in my head is
"hey Ivan, isn't that the cow from state propeganda? The one who keeps saying the war is going well and we have plentiful supplies? "
"you know Sergei, I think you're right. Bottle of vodka to whoever gets her."

[Legbiter]

Army man in the Spanish OT that has experience with both tanks claims that Leos are actually harder to maintain than Abramses, lots of finicky tech.

I'm with you, not so sure western tanks can realistically make a difference here given the industrial and logistics challenges involved - which is troubling.

Lots of countries have repair facilities for them including Poland. Lots of spare parts, lots of ammo available.   

[Legbiter]

Maybe this is not nice but I have to admit I enjoyed the Russian propaganda chick screaming in pain after playing soldier and getting sniped in the knee. She and her ilk are making it possible to keep the war going and have thus blood on their hands:

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1616891317203922944?s=20&t=9HI49A6OcFh5327_2vCMxg

The memes in the comments...

[Legbiter]

[Sheilbh]

However if a Leo gets damaged, its pretty easy to ship it back to Poland for repairs by those who know it, or to drive a truck right up to the parts factory in Germany.

Yeah I think that's the perceived benefit of the Leopards is that there's several manufacturing locations in Europe, but also stocks of spare parts and training areas etc that are already set up and ready to go because many European countries use it as their tanks.

With the American tank it will be a longer logistical tale (presumably requiring a lot more commitment from the US) because the nearest equivalent to what's available in Poland or Germany is in Georgia.

Very good news following Baerbock's hint yesterday. Poland have submitted a formal request. Germany is going to release the Leopards and the US is sending some Abrams too.

While Germany stuck to its traditional approach to this crisis I still find it slightly crazy that they're announcing this literally four days after all the allies were gathered in Germany working on the next round of support for Ukraine.

[Jacob]

Release the leopards!

[Zanza]

Just announced reported:Germany will deliver 14 of its own Leopard 2 to Ukraine.

Edit: not announced, reported by media

[Zanza]

Here is why the Leopard 2 is so important:

https://youtu.be/222o2O_w3WI

[Crazy_Ivan80]

https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugkx5KlmQccBb8digOGSJuDJLXU9CVQV1S9F

this is floating around... but I'm guessing it's not true. It looks too good

[The Larch]

And, as usual, the tale repeats itself.

Germany to send Leopard tanks to Kyiv - reports
German chancellor Olaf Scholz has decided to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine and allow other countries such as Poland to do so while the US may supply Abrams tanks, magazine Spiegel has reported.

A government spokesperson declined to comment. The defence ministry was not immediately available for comment, Reuters reported.

The decision concerns at least one company of Leopard 2 A6 tanks that will be provided out of Bundeswehr stocks, Spiegel said.

Other allies, in Scandinavia for example, intend to go along with Germany in supplying their Leopard tanks to Kyiv, the magazine reported.

In the longer term, more tanks could be restored to be fit for use, according to the magazine.

[Zanza]

There are suggestions that Scholz holding out made the US commit Abrams. If so, he just did what he stated upfront and once he achieved his goal did what was promised.

[Jacob]

There are suggestions that Scholz holding out made the US commit Abrams. If so, he just did what he stated upfront and once he achieved his goal did what was promised.

In which case, credit to him.