Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Solmyr]

Lots of central and eastern european countries don't have long historical identities - the czechs, slovaks, slovenes, romanians have no historic state to point to.

Bohemia for Czechs? Moldavia and Wallachia for the Romanians?

[grumbler]

Lots of central and eastern european countries don't have long historical identities - the czechs, slovaks, slovenes, romanians have no historic state to point to.

Bohemia for Czechs? Moldavia and Wallachia for the Romanians?

Don't interrupt a rant with facts.  It's rude.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Lots of central and eastern european countries don't have long historical identities - the czechs, slovaks, slovenes, romanians have no historic state to point to.

Bohemia for Czechs? Moldavia and Wallachia for the Romanians?

indeed.

[Eddie Teach]

In fairness, the word "state" is a stretch for most of those entities' history.

[Barrister]

Lots of central and eastern european countries don't have long historical identities - the czechs, slovaks, slovenes, romanians have no historic state to point to.

Bohemia for Czechs? Moldavia and Wallachia for the Romanians?

Bohemia was as much a Czech state as the Hetmanate was a Ukrainian one.  Which is to say, a little bit, but not really.

[The Minsky Moment]

Those snooty bohemians need to czech their privilege.

[PRC]

I was listening to a podcast talking about the crisis and the author mentioned that the Ukraine, kind of like Poland, is what he called a "plateau" nation - it is like a low lying island surrounded by water. It only ever seems to exist when the nations around it our weak, and when the nations around it are strong, it tends to get swallowed up by them, only to come back again when they recede.

Sounds like Dan Carlin.

[garbon]

Those snooty bohemians need to czech their privilege.

[Sheilbh]

These facts aren't proof of the propositions you state above, by any stretch.  But they are kernels of fact upon which, with much embellishment, that kind of narrative can be built.

And of course the example of the Baltic treatment of Russian minorities and the Euro blind eye to it is a real and unfortunate example.

[Valmy]

I was listening to a podcast talking about the crisis and the author mentioned that the Ukraine, kind of like Poland, is what he called a "plateau" nation - it is like a low lying island surrounded by water. It only ever seems to exist when the nations around it our weak, and when the nations around it are strong, it tends to get swallowed up by them, only to come back again when they recede.

Sounds like Dan Carlin.

It wasn't.  Believe me I rushed to his site to check if he had a new common sense out

I guess it could have been an old one from early in the crisis though.

[Razgovory]

Lots of central and eastern european countries don't have long historical identities - the czechs, slovaks, slovenes, romanians have no historic state to point to.

Bohemia for Czechs? Moldavia and Wallachia for the Romanians?

Bohemia was as much a Czech state as the Hetmanate was a Ukrainian one.  Which is to say, a little bit, but not really.

State may have been a poor choice of words.  They don't have historical independent nations to point too.  These countries were independent prior to concepts of nationalism and so aren't "nations" in the same sense we think of nations today.  They lack real historic national identities.  Still, that's not all that bad.  You can (and many countries have), just make some up. After all, a nation is simply an imagined community.  Why not create an imagined history to go with it?  God knows the Russians have.  Hell, they have imagined history about things happened only a few decades ago that people still alive should be able to remember.

[Razgovory]

These facts aren't proof of the propositions you state above, by any stretch.  But they are kernels of fact upon which, with much embellishment, that kind of narrative can be built.

And of course the example of the Baltic treatment of Russian minorities and the Euro blind eye to it is a real and unfortunate example.

That one worries me.  If the Russians remind Europe about how ethnic Russians have genuine grievances in the Baltic states, will that be enough to shake Euros resolve concerning the defense of those countries?

[The Larch]

These facts aren't proof of the propositions you state above, by any stretch.  But they are kernels of fact upon which, with much embellishment, that kind of narrative can be built.

And of course the example of the Baltic treatment of Russian minorities and the Euro blind eye to it is a real and unfortunate example.

Blind eye? IIRC the EU forced them (mostly Latvia and Estonia) to vastly improve their situation as a condition for entering the union.

[Sheilbh]

Blind eye? IIRC the EU forced them (mostly Latvia and Estonia) to vastly improve their situation as a condition for entering the union.

From my understanding either the situation was really awful prior to EU accession, or it was barely improved.

There's still lots of statelessness and restrictions on education.

I think the Baltics (and Cyprus and Romania and Bulgaria and, maybe, Hungary) were let in too soon which meant a little weakening of standards.

[mongers]

Blind eye? IIRC the EU forced them (mostly Latvia and Estonia) to vastly improve their situation as a condition for entering the union.

From my understanding either the situation was really awful prior to EU accession, or it was barely improved.

There's still lots of statelessness and restrictions on education.

I think the Baltics (and Cyprus and Romania and Bulgaria and, maybe, Hungary) were let in too soon which meant a little weakening of standards.

This point to a fundamental weakness in the EU, a ideologically motivated activist foreign policy without an organised military to provide substance/a back-bone.