Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Seems like the Jews are getting the advice from Moscow's Chief Rabbi in exile to leave the country while they still can

Makes sense.  Last time a major power lost a war, Jews got blamed for it.

indeed.
And that Zelensky is jewish is probably not going to help the russian case either. Russia already created the Elders of Zion once...

[Valmy]

Seems like the Jews are getting the advice from Moscow's Chief Rabbi in exile to leave the country while they still can

Source? I don't doubt you, just curious.

All these WWII vibes around this thing. Granted this may be the first large scale land invasion in Europe since then.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Seems like the Jews are getting the advice from Moscow's Chief Rabbi in exile to leave the country while they still can

Source? I don't doubt you, just curious.

All these WWII vibes around this thing. Granted this may be the first large scale land invasion in Europe since then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR4ZyjlAzC4&ab_channel=JakeBroe

it is indeed the first of that scale since '45. Yugoslavia, for all the misery that was, was nothing like this

at around 11:30minutes in it starts

[The Larch]

Indirect consequences of the war.

Germany's Die Linke on verge of split over sanctions on Russia
Leftwing party's future in balance after series of resignations, as former co-leader calls coalition 'stupidest government in Europe'

Germany's Die Linke could split into two parties over the Ukraine war, as the ailing leftwing party's indecisive stance over economic sanctions against Russia triggered a series of high-profile resignations this week.

The German Left party's future has hung in a precarious balance since it snuck into the national parliament last autumn under a special provision for parties that win three or more constituency seats. Should three of its 39 delegates resign from the party, Die Linke would lose its status as a parliamentary group and attached privileges over speaking times and committee memberships.

Party insiders say such resignations are a matter of when, not if, after a week of vicious public in-fighting over a speech in which the former co-leader Sahra Wagenknecht accused the German government of "launching an unprecedented economic war against our most important energy supplier".

Supporters of Wagenknecht, a controversial but prominent figurehead, are already hatching plans for a breakaway party to compete in the 2024 European elections, the German newspaper Taz reported this week.

Such a split would be likely to spell the end of Die Linke, 15 years after it was founded in a merger between the successor to East Germany's Socialist Unity party and former Social Democrats disillusioned by their party's direction under Gerhard Schröder, and just under a decade after it formed the largest opposition force in the Bundestag's 2013-17 term.

In her speech last Thursday, Wagenknecht had called chancellor Olaf Scholz's left-leaning governing coalition "the stupidest government in Europe" because it imposed sanctions on Russia, which supplied over half of Germany's gas needs before the start of the war in the spring.

"Yes, of course the war in Ukraine is a crime", Wagenknecht said. "But how dumb is the idea that we can punish Putin by pushing millions of German families into poverty and destroy our economy while Gazprom makes record profits?" The speech was greeted with applause not only by the Linke leadership but also by delegates of the far-right Alternative für Deutschland (AfD).

Wagenknecht no longer holds any official positions in Die Linke, but was nominated to be its sole speaker in the recent parliamentary session on the national climate budget.

In the run-up to the speech, Die Linke's parliamentary co-chair Dietmar Bartsch had reportedly urged Wagenknecht to avoid calling for an opening of Nord Stream 2, the Russian gas pipeline project that was halted shortly before the invasion of Ukraine in February.

While the 53-year-old did not mention Nord Stream 2, her "economic war" comments proved incendiary. Even though the German government has used similar language to describe its standoff with the Kremlin over gas deliveries, Wagenknecht suggested that the act of aggression in this conflict had been initiated by the west.

"The thesis that the federal republic of Germany is leading an economic war against Russia reverses cause and effect", said Bodo Ramelow, the Left party state premier for Thuringia. "The phrase 'the USA's economic war against Russia' is Kremlin propaganda", said Martina Renner, a former deputy leader of the leftwing outfit.

While Die Linke has broadly opposed the delivery of heavy weapons to Ukraine, it voted in favour of economic sanctions against Russia in May, and a party congress in June condemned Putin's war of aggression in Ukraine as "imperialist".

Splits in the leftwing party, present since Die Linke's founding, have become increasingly entrenched in recent years.

The biggest and most bitter split is between reformists who see the party's future in a space where different union and social justice movements overlap, and those more traditional, nationalist leftists gathered around Wagenknecht, who accuse what they call the "lifestyle left" of having betrayed the party's traditional working-class base.

While the movement-oriented Bewegungslinke dominates Die Linke's leadership, the Wagenknecht faction continues to grab headlines, most recently by calling for a revival of cold war-era "Monday demonstrations" in protest against rising energy prices. With the party's parliamentary status in a fine balance, there have until now been few attempts to rock the boat by seeking an open conflict.

Wagenknecht had ended her speech by calling for the resignation of the minister for economic affairs, Robert Habeck. Instead, her contribution triggered the resignations of two high-profile members.

Ulrich Schneider, the head of the German welfare association Der Paritätische, on Monday announced via Twitter he had handed in his membership over the party letting Wagenknecht take the podium. "That was too much", said Schneider, who heads Germany's largest umbrella organisation of self-help initiatives in the area of health and social work.

Fabio di Masi, a former Linke MP who had remained its most prolific expert on financial expert even after standing down as an MP last year, said a day later he was also handing in his membership, as he no longer wanted to bear responsibility for the "blatant failure of key actors in this party".

The draining of support is reflected at a grassroot level. According to internal party figures seen by the Guardian, Die Linke has lost more than 3,000 members – or 5.5% of its total membership –in the first half of this year.

After gaining 4.9% of the vote at federal elections last September, the leftwing party has failed to make it over the electoral threshold at five consecutive state elections.

[Solmyr]

Seems like the Jews are getting the advice from Moscow's Chief Rabbi in exile to leave the country while they still can

Source? I don't doubt you, just curious.

All these WWII vibes around this thing. Granted this may be the first large scale land invasion in Europe since then.

I'm getting more WWI vibes as the autocracy is steadily losing legitimacy.

[Josquius]

Indirect consequences of the war.

]Germany's Die Linke on verge of

So we get a clear differentiation between the sensible left and the nutters?
Sounds like a win for Germany.

[Admiral Yi]

So we get a clear differentiation between the sensible left and the nutters?
Sounds like a win for Germany.

I don't think that line is going to be found within Die Linke. 

[jimmy olsen]

https://twitter.com/warnerta/status/1571721687619584008

Interesting Twitter thread on why Russia continues to try and advance in the central part of their front with Ukraine even while losing significant amounts of territory around Kharkiv.

The author calls it "Potemkin syndrome" - doing work for the purpose of appearing to do work.  BY shelling and trying to advance towards Bakhmut they can report back to Putin that they're advancing and winning, even if they're losing much more  land (and much more valuable land) in another area.

I also read that area was under Wagner control and the regular army is incapable of reigning them in.

[Barrister]

So apparently Russia is going ahead after all with referendums in DOnetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts about being incorporated into Russia.  Obviously these will not be free and fair votes (the referendum they held in Crimea did not have remaining with Ukraine even on the ballot), but the idea apparently is that they will then be able to characterize further Ukrainian advances as attacks on Russia herself.

Don't see anyone in the wider world being remotely fooled by this tactic, but maybe it helps with internal Russian public opinion.

[The Larch]

So apparently Russia is going ahead after all with referendums in DOnetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts about being incorporated into Russia.  Obviously these will not be free and fair votes (the referendum they held in Crimea did not have remaining with Ukraine even on the ballot), but the idea apparently is that they will then be able to characterize further Ukrainian advances as attacks on Russia herself.

Don't see anyone in the wider world being remotely fooled by this tactic, but maybe it helps with internal Russian public opinion.

I thought those "referendums" had been cancelled after the successful Ukrainian counterattack of the last few weeks. Did they finally decide to go ahead with them?

[Habbaku]

I thought those "referendums" had been cancelled after the successful Ukrainian counterattack of the last few weeks. Did they finally decide to go ahead with them?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-marches-farther-into-liberated-lands-separatist-calls-urgent-referendum-2022-09-19/

LONDON/KYIV, Sept 20 (Reuters) - Russian-installed leaders in occupied areas of four Ukrainian regions set out plans for referendums on joining Russia this week, a step an ally of President Vladimir Putin said would alter the geopolitical landscape forever.

Russian officials portrayed the move as one that would give Moscow a claim to territory that it could defend with any means possible. Ukraine dismissed it as a stunt by Russia to try to reclaim the initiative after crushing losses on the battlefield.

[Habbaku]

It also seems more and more likely they're going to initiate some sort of proper mobilization and declare an actual war. 

[Barrister]

So apparently Russia is going ahead after all with referendums in DOnetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts about being incorporated into Russia.  Obviously these will not be free and fair votes (the referendum they held in Crimea did not have remaining with Ukraine even on the ballot), but the idea apparently is that they will then be able to characterize further Ukrainian advances as attacks on Russia herself.

Don't see anyone in the wider world being remotely fooled by this tactic, but maybe it helps with internal Russian public opinion.

I thought those "referendums" had been cancelled after the successful Ukrainian counterattack of the last few weeks. Did they finally decide to go ahead with them?

Yup.  Unless they delay them again.

[The Larch]

In diplomatic news, Putin seems to be running out of international buddies.

Erdoğan to Putin: Return Crimea to 'rightful owners'
Turkish leader joins parade of leaders dealing blows to Putin.

Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said that Russian President Vladimir Putin must return all land that Russia has occupied, including Crimea.

The Black Sea peninsula should be returned to its "rightful owners," Erdoğan told PBS NewsHour on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York, in comments likely to provoke ire in Moscow.

Asked whether Russia should be allowed to keep Crimea in a negotiated end to the war, Erdoğan said, "These are our descendants at the same time, the people who are living there. If you were to take this step forward, if you could leave us, you would also be relieving the Crimean Tatars and Ukraine as well. That's what we have always been saying."

Erdoğan said he had been telling Putin this since 2014. "But since then, unfortunately, no step has been taken forward," he added.

The remarks make him the latest world leader with continuing ties to Russia to deal Putin a rhetorical blow in recent days. India's Narendra Modi raised concerns last week about the Russian president's ongoing war on Ukraine, and Putin himself admitted China's Xi Jinping expressed "concerns" as well.

Crimean Tatars have ethnic, linguistic and historic ties to Turkey, and it was a protectorate of the Ottoman empire until it was annexed by the Russian empire in 1783.

Erdoğan told PBS that when he met Putin in Uzbekistan last week, the Russian president gave him the impression he was "willing to end this as soon as possible." Erdoğan also said that 200 hostages will be exchanged between Ukraine and Russia.

In the interview, Erdoğan continued to present Turkey, which is a member of NATO, as a neutral party in the Russia-Ukraine war, saying that a conclusion to hostilities would not be reached by "taking sides." However he also said that Russia's "invasion cannot be justified."

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy vowed last week that his country would liberate Crimea from the Russian occupiers. Putin sent forces into Crimea in early 2014, illegally annexing the Black Sea peninsula and then sparking a years-long conflict in the eastern Donbas region.

Since the war began in February, Ankara has hosted talks with officials from Moscow and Kyiv at the highest level and mediated a grain deal alongside the U.N. to ensure safe food exports out of blockaded Ukrainian ports, though some Western diplomats suspect Turkey of playing a double game.

Unless he means that the rightful owners of Crimea are the Tatars... 

[Barrister]

It also seems more and more likely they're going to initiate some sort of proper mobilization and declare an actual war. 

I feel like the time where that would have helped the Russians has passed.  At this point there's no one to train them and no modern equipment to give them.

I think it's less about general mobilization, and more about being able to force current soldiers to fight even if they object to going to Ukraine.