Tesla's to unveil $35K Model in 2016; will go on sale in 2017

[Caliga]

The Leaf looked like a poormobile to me.

[Monoriu]

If you walk through a typical Canadian parking lot you'll notice there's a plug in for every stall.

Now those are to plug in your block heater, not electric cars, but it goes to show it's not terribly difficult to get power in parking lots.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear.  The real problem isn't getting power in carparks.  As someone said earlier, there are already lights, fans, lifts and a lot of other stuff that need electricity there. 

The real problem is political, not technical.  An individual carpark has thousands of different owners.  The public areas are owned by a management company.  The management company cannot give consent for major works unless the owner's committee grants approval.  In addition to that, each individual parking space is owned by different flat owners.  The crux of the problem is how to secure approval from everybody to change the carpark to one that is usable by electric vehicles. 

[Caliga]

I know nothing about HK real estate but I would guess there's something like a CAM clause in the deeds that allows them to unilaterally make improvements and spread the cost out among the owners.

[Monoriu]

I know nothing about HK real estate but I would guess there's something like a CAM clause in the deeds that allows them to unilaterally make improvements and spread the cost out among the owners.

I am sure they can replace lightbulbs that go dead or add additional lighting.  But major renovation works like adding chargers all over the place are certainly another matter.  I usually don't care about owners' committee stuff, but I know I will fight tooth and nail if someone is using my money to install chargers, and I am quite certain I am not alone. 

[dps]

There is a Tesla showroom in the same block as my office.  Tesla is very smart in the way they market their cars.  The showroom is very small - enough room for only one car and some displays.  The place is always packed with customers and the curious.  Owning one has become a status symbol here.

Yeah, that's why I disagree with ... was it Zanza? ... who say they've got their marketing backwards. I think starting out high end and moving down market is a better plan than trying to break in at the low end first.

I think for Tesla it's a good plan, because of the premium you currently have to pay for an electric.  I think it would be backwards for a car company basing its line-up on cars with traditional internal combustion engines.

[Jacob]

I know nothing about HK real estate but I would guess there's something like a CAM clause in the deeds that allows them to unilaterally make improvements and spread the cost out among the owners.

I am sure they can replace lightbulbs that go dead or add additional lighting.  But major renovation works like adding chargers all over the place are certainly another matter.  I usually don't care about owners' committee stuff, but I know I will fight tooth and nail if someone is using my money to install chargers, and I am quite certain I am not alone.

Would you fight tooth and nail if it cost you $X dollars, but would increase your property value by some significant multiple of X?

[Monoriu]

I know nothing about HK real estate but I would guess there's something like a CAM clause in the deeds that allows them to unilaterally make improvements and spread the cost out among the owners.

I am sure they can replace lightbulbs that go dead or add additional lighting.  But major renovation works like adding chargers all over the place are certainly another matter.  I usually don't care about owners' committee stuff, but I know I will fight tooth and nail if someone is using my money to install chargers, and I am quite certain I am not alone.

Would you fight tooth and nail if it cost you $X dollars, but would increase your property value by some significant multiple of X?

I will fight against it for sure.  See, the carparking space and my flat are sold separately.  I don't see how installing chargers will increase the value of my flat.  I won't buy an electric vehicle unless I have no choice.  As you may have noticed I am not exactly the kind of person who rush in to adopt new technologies  So installing chargers won't benefit me. 

[DGuller]

There is a Tesla showroom in the same block as my office.  Tesla is very smart in the way they market their cars.  The showroom is very small - enough room for only one car and some displays.  The place is always packed with customers and the curious.  Owning one has become a status symbol here.

Yeah, that's why I disagree with ... was it Zanza? ... who say they've got their marketing backwards. I think starting out high end and moving down market is a better plan than trying to break in at the low end first.

I think for Tesla it's a good plan, because of the premium you currently have to pay for an electric.  I think it would be backwards for a car company basing its line-up on cars with traditional internal combustion engines.

That's how it works with new car companies with IC engines as well.  The new car companies are almost always making sportscars.  It actually takes a whole lot to build a competitive mass-produced car.

[DGuller]

Here is something that's nagging me:  how sustainable is it to mass-produce electric cars?  Don't you need a whole bunch of rare materials to make batteries?  It may work fine when Tesla builds several thousand cars, but is tens of millions of cars feasible?

[DontSayBanana]

Here is something that's nagging me:  how sustainable is it to mass-produce electric cars?  Don't you need a whole bunch of rare materials to make batteries?  It may work fine when Tesla builds several thousand cars, but is tens of millions of cars feasible?

Not for the batteries themselves, so much as the onboard electronics, where you might see selenium being used.  The batteries are typically mainly carbon, graphite, and one of a few possible harvested lithium compounds, which are fairly widely available.

[Barrister]

Here is something that's nagging me:  how sustainable is it to mass-produce electric cars?  Don't you need a whole bunch of rare materials to make batteries?  It may work fine when Tesla builds several thousand cars, but is tens of millions of cars feasible?

The rare earth metals are only rarein comparison to the abundance of iron, copper and the like on the earth's crust.  They're plentiful enough.  They're currently only produced in China because the Chinese are the most likely to put up with shitty environmental controls.

[Zanza]

Yeah, that's why I disagree with ... was it Zanza? ... who say they've got their marketing backwards. I think starting out high end and moving down market is a better plan than trying to break in at the low end first.

I think their marketing and especially PR is brilliant. I merely said that I am interested in seeing whether they'll also handle their other processes similarly well. And if they can keep their early success up. It's surprisingly hard to find recent sales numbers from Tesla.

It's very hard for a Western world carmaker to start with a volume model as the incumbents are extremely efficient already. There are some examples, e.g. Renault's cheaper line Dacia entering at the lowest end of the market in Europe. But that doesn't work for someone with innovative and thus expensive technology.

[dps]

There is a Tesla showroom in the same block as my office.  Tesla is very smart in the way they market their cars.  The showroom is very small - enough room for only one car and some displays.  The place is always packed with customers and the curious.  Owning one has become a status symbol here.

Yeah, that's why I disagree with ... was it Zanza? ... who say they've got their marketing backwards. I think starting out high end and moving down market is a better plan than trying to break in at the low end first.

I think for Tesla it's a good plan, because of the premium you currently have to pay for an electric.  I think it would be backwards for a car company basing its line-up on cars with traditional internal combustion engines.

That's how it works with new car companies with IC engines as well.  The new car companies are almost always making sportscars.  It actually takes a whole lot to build a competitive mass-produced car.

Yeah, but those companies that start with sports cars or luxury cars basically stay niche manufacturers.  Look at the history.  Well, there hasn't been a real start-up to succeed in a long time, but look at the imports to the US.  Volkswagen started off with the Beetle, and the Japanese and Koreans started off with econoboxes and then, after those were successful, were able to move to the higher ends of the market.

[Jacob]

Yeah, that's why I disagree with ... was it Zanza? ... who say they've got their marketing backwards. I think starting out high end and moving down market is a better plan than trying to break in at the low end first.

I think their marketing and especially PR is brilliant. I merely said that I am interested in seeing whether they'll also handle their other processes similarly well. And if they can keep their early success up. It's surprisingly hard to find recent sales numbers from Tesla.

It's very hard for a Western world carmaker to start with a volume model as the incumbents are extremely efficient already. There are some examples, e.g. Renault's cheaper line Dacia entering at the lowest end of the market in Europe. But that doesn't work for someone with innovative and thus expensive technology.

Fair enough

[Admiral Yi]

While in Madison I took a ride in a newer Prius.  MUCH better ride than the early model Priuii.  Didn't know it was a hybrid till I asked the driver.