Children of same-sex couples are happier and healthier than peers, research show

[garbon]

To answer the question as to why anyone should give a shit when the importance of the study is to demonstrate gays can make just as good parents - the reason is that spouting odd-sounding theories brings the researcher into doubt, and hence can be used by those with a vested interest in demonstrating that gays make crappy parents to discredit the study.

But what the researcher actually said (not the article paraphrase) doesn't seem so wacky.

[garbon]

Grab On has a good point.  Presumably the question driving this study is whether a child is harmed by being raised by a self selecting same sex couple.  No one is suggesting randomly handing out orphans to gay couples by lottery.

Agreed.  That should have been have been the conclusion of the research rather than, as Malthus pointed out, reaching for a conclusion not available on the data observed.

Unless one of us read the actual paper, I'm not sure that any of us knows the actual conclusions drawn by the researcher.

[Admiral Yi]

Unless one of us read the actual paper, I'm not sure that any of us knows the actual conclusions drawn by the researcher.

Without even reading the paper, I'd be willing to bet the conclusion is "statistically significant difference in two dependent variables in favor of homofag couples.'

[Malthus]

I would certainly be curious as to how the study measures "family cohesion".

[crazy canuck]

I would certainly be curious as to how the study measures "family cohesion".

acid bath?

[frunk]

Do we care that much about how Crouch looks?

Besides don't a lot of studies end up with the undertakers theorizing a bit at the end? I don't have access to the actual paper but below is from something that is a bit closer to source* (cited by WaPo and then it has link directly to paper).

*actually this is the source insofar as it is an article written by Crouch. I'd say that WaPo sentence isn't a fair summary of what he wrote.

http://theconversation.com/kids-from-same-sex-families-fare-as-well-as-peers-or-better-28803

Our findings support and strengthen the existing international research undertaken with smaller sample sizes.

Interestingly, there is growing evidence to suggest that the structure of same-sex parent families, particularly in relation to work and home duties, plays an important part in how well families get along. Same-sex parents, for instance, are more likely to share child care and work responsibilities more equitably than heterosexual-parent families.

It is liberating for parents to take on roles that suit their skills rather than defaulting to gender stereotypes, where mum is the primary care giver and dad the primary breadwinner. Our research suggests that abandoning such gender stereotypes might be beneficial to child health.

That's good, but I'm still not sure what in his research could be regarded as evidence for the superior structure of same-sex parent families.  It's equally likely that same-sex couples have to go to more trouble than hetero couples, and hence are more motivated to make it work.  That's why I would want the data compared to hetero couples who couldn't go the normal breeding route and had to take the extra step with adoption/surrogacy.  I'm thinking the results would end up being much closer if not the same.

[Valmy]

But what the researcher actually said (not the article paraphrase) doesn't seem so wacky.

I never said it was wacky.  It may be true.  I just said it was a bizarre leap.  He just found evidence they had they have greater results in certain areas.  I did not see how the hows or whys were conclusive.  As others have suggested it seems logical that they would be better because they would, on average, be more self selecting.  But that is just a guess as well. 

I further found it dodgy he used it to turn around and suggest it is the traditional people who are inferior, because you are leaving yourself open there to lots of attacks based on results from thousands of cultures around the world and historical data from this country.  Why go down that path when the point is to point out that children are not harmed by having same sex parents?

[garbon]

Here's lots more on study (aka published article): http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2458-14-635.pdf

[garbon]

Do we care that much about how Crouch looks?

Besides don't a lot of studies end up with the undertakers theorizing a bit at the end? I don't have access to the actual paper but below is from something that is a bit closer to source* (cited by WaPo and then it has link directly to paper).

*actually this is the source insofar as it is an article written by Crouch. I'd say that WaPo sentence isn't a fair summary of what he wrote.

http://theconversation.com/kids-from-same-sex-families-fare-as-well-as-peers-or-better-28803

Our findings support and strengthen the existing international research undertaken with smaller sample sizes.

Interestingly, there is growing evidence to suggest that the structure of same-sex parent families, particularly in relation to work and home duties, plays an important part in how well families get along. Same-sex parents, for instance, are more likely to share child care and work responsibilities more equitably than heterosexual-parent families.

It is liberating for parents to take on roles that suit their skills rather than defaulting to gender stereotypes, where mum is the primary care giver and dad the primary breadwinner. Our research suggests that abandoning such gender stereotypes might be beneficial to child health.

That's good, but I'm still not sure what in his research could be regarded as evidence for the superior structure of same-sex parent families.  It's equally likely that same-sex couples have to go to more trouble than hetero couples, and hence are more motivated to make it work.  That's why I would want the data compared to hetero couples who couldn't go the normal breeding route and had to take the extra step with adoption/surrogacy.  I'm thinking the results would end up being much closer if not the same.

Oh I deleted that post after finding that it did have full paper.

As to superiority, I think that's more an issue with headline. I don't think Crouch set out to demonstrate that gays have superior structure. Paper bares that out that point was to show that they don't suffer at the hands of gay parents.

I also don't find it shocking to suggesting that breaking down gender norms/roles could be helpful.

[Malthus]

I also don't find it shocking to suggesting that breaking down gender norms/roles could be helpful.

It isn't "shocking", it is just a huge leap in logic from a relatively minor observed variance in something as (apparently) subjective as "family cohesion".

[Valmy]

I also don't find it shocking to suggesting that breaking down gender norms/roles could be helpful.

You don't find it a shocking suggestion that destroying the building blocks of society could be helpful?  Sometimes I find it bizarre you consider yourself a Conservative.  'I want to completely SMASH traditional values...in a conservative way'

Anyway I am not saying that his conclusions are wrong.  Me and my wife certainly operate inside of our skills and strengths for the most part.  I mean what does the gender division of labor even mean in a society where both partners have to work in most cases?  But I just found it a leap to conclude that from the study's results.

[garbon]

You don't find it a shocking suggestion that destroying the building blocks of society could be helpful?  Sometimes I find it bizarre you consider yourself a Conservative.  'I want to completely SMASH traditional values...in a conservative way'

I grew up in a household where my father stayed home to take care of the children and as a child I could play with whatever toys I wanted regardless of how they were coded gender-wise. It'd be radical for me to argue against breaking down gender norms.

Besides, I don't think I've ever said that I'm a social conservative.

Anyway I am not saying that his conclusions are wrong.  Me and my wife certainly operate inside of our skills and strengths for the most part.  I mean what does the gender division of labor even mean in a society where both partners have to work in most cases?  But I just found it a leap to conclude that from the study's results.

The thing is that it isn't clear to me that anyone made the leap. The paper says the following:

Previous research has suggested that same-sex attracted parents are much more likely to share household duties equally when compared to their heterosexual counterparts, and they make decisions about work/family balance based more on circumstance than preconceived gender-based ideals [30]. Individual suitability rather than societal convention is more likely therefore to inform parenting roles. This has the potential to engender greater family harmony in the long-term.

Now perhaps it would have been better left out but the linkage is pretty clear that authors were taking their bit on family cohesion, linking it to prior research and then making a statement on parenting roles.

[Malthus]

There is also the notion that more cohesive families are better. I'm not certain that this is true, in the same way that "being more healthy is better'.

Apparently, the issue is somewhat controversial among sociologist types.

http://pb.rcpsych.org/content/29/6/215.full

One person's "strongly cohesive family" is another person's "overbearing, smothering parenting".

[Capetan Mihali]

I can't be "arsed" () to read the article or thread, but did the researchers control for class/socioeconomic status/education level of parents?

My assumption would be that it is a cohort of relatively affluent and well-educated same-sex couples who are adopting or otherwise "having" children.  Anecdotally, the gay men and lesbian couples that I know who are looking to have children soonish definitely fit the "stable bourgeois homosexual" archetype, especially ones who have great relationships with their own parents.  With the working-class gay couples I've known, I think it has seemed unappealing or out of range.  Actually, strike that, my lesbian mailman neighbor and her wife definitely want to have kids.

[Admiral Yi]

Yes.