Would you secede?

[Josquius]

I recall reading an article a little while ago. It spoke of some people in Berwick muttering about leaving England to join Scotland (assuming the Scots don't shoot themselves in the head with this independence thing).
Their reasoning wasn't based on any nationalist feeling, most people in Berwick pretty strongly see themselves as English, but simply that Scots get lots of freebies- free medicine, free university, etc... and Scotland gets a lot of money thrown at it by the government that north east England doesn't get.
They figure that since nationalism is stupid and they would lose nothing by joining Scotland it is purely logical to do so and get the improved government services.

So.
My question.
Assume a similar situation.
You live in a border town of your country (a little bit of a different situation since it would have to be a true border outside of the UK).
Beyond a shadow of a doubt life would  be significantly better  (lets say...$1200 a year or so better off?) for you , your family and all your neighbours if your town left your country to join your neighbour.
And let's assume that you know for certain that this isn't a short term thing, it will always be true.
You can keep the right to travel, work and live in your current country but you won't be a citizen.

Your town holds a referendum of logic vs. nationalism.
Would you vote to leave?

[Tamas]

Yeah independent Scotland will have lots of free money for continued  lavish welfare payments. They would love some freeloaders joining them. 


And stop using the term "free". It is not. It is free for the shmuck receiving it, but somebody else is paying for it. It is as free as your mobile phone once a thug strongarms it out of your hand.

[Eddie Teach]

And stop using the term "free". It is not. It is free for the shmuck receiving it, but somebody else is paying for it. It is as free as your mobile phone once a thug strongarms it out of your hand.

The thug is risking gaol, so not as free in that scenario.

[Brazen]

If I were that dissatisfied with my lot I'd have upped sticks and moved to Edinburgh or London years ago rather than expecting a government - any government - to solve my problems.

[Tamas]

rather than expecting a government - any government - to solve my problems.

You fail at modern politics.

[Josquius]

Yeah independent Scotland will have lots of free money for continued  lavish welfare payments. They would love some freeloaders joining them. 


And stop using the term "free". It is not. It is free for the shmuck receiving it, but somebody else is paying for it. It is as free as your mobile phone once a thug strongarms it out of your hand.

The Scots pay the same taxes as the English. The government gives them more. Ergo compared to the English the Scots get things for free.

[Tamas]

Yeah independent Scotland will have lots of free money for continued  lavish welfare payments. They would love some freeloaders joining them. 


And stop using the term "free". It is not. It is free for the shmuck receiving it, but somebody else is paying for it. It is as free as your mobile phone once a thug strongarms it out of your hand.

The Scots pay the same taxes as the English. The government gives them more. Ergo compared to the English the Scots get things for free.

No. Some of the Scots get stuff which was taken from other Scots.

[Viking]

Tyr, Tamas

Right now Scots get money from England. After independence Scots will have to take the money from other scots.

[Razgovory]

So my choice is to be Mexican or Canadian?  That doesn't seem like a good deal.  Tyr seems to be phrasing this in a way of "If you could have your cake and eat it too, would you do it?".

[Josquius]

No. Some of the Scots get stuff which was taken from other Scots.

Not so much, the taxes go into a central pool and some is then given back to Scotland.
And Scottish people get more than English people.

[Admiral Yi]

The taxes won't go into a central pool after independence.

[Josquius]

The taxes won't go into a central pool after independence.

Unlikely to happen and irrelevant to the question at hand.

[Admiral Yi]

Unlikely to happen and irrelevant to the question at hand.

How's that?  Currently the high incomes generated by the City get taxed by the UK government then distributed throughout, you claim more generously in Scotland than in England.  If Scotland votes for independence this source of tax revenue will no longer be available to distibute to Scottish citizens.

How is that no relevant to the question at hand?

[Admiral Yi]

I misread; you're talking about Scotland *not* going independent.

[Tamas]

No. Some of the Scots get stuff which was taken from other Scots.

Not so much, the taxes go into a central pool and some is then given back to Scotland.
And Scottish people get more than English people.

Ok, so some Scots are receiving stuff which was taken from other Brits. Not a big difference in principles.