The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant Megathread

[Razgovory]

Yeah, keeping your cool is a terrible thing to do, much better then fly off the handle and demand that millions are slaughtered.

[citizen k]

NSFW or children:

[DontSayBanana]

Sykes-Picot 2.0?

More or less.  I'm of the opinion ISIS needs to be eradicated, not subjugated.

[grumbler]

However, it is hard not to see the contrast mentioned here not by me, that when Allied troops were already on the ground and they were being beheaded on Youtube, the mainstream pretty much ignored it or made it a side issue, and now when public support for having boots on the ground evaporated, beheadings and general personal brutality (the one which already had been happening in Iraq and Afghanistan) becomes the focus and big talking points.

Again, I am HAPPY this is happening because it is for the good of the world. But that doesn't stop it looking guided by policies.

It may look "guided by policies' to you, but it certainly doesn't to me.  Mostly, because I don't believe in these nebulous "policies" that no one creates and no one enforces, but which have some mysterious "guiding" power anyway.

The media where you are may have "pretty much ignored" beheadings in Iraq during the war there, but here in the US, the name "Daniel Pearl" is still recognized as a victim of beheading.  Ditto, to a lesser extent (because Pearl was the first and therefor most shocking case) for Jack Hensley, Nicholas Berg, and Eugene Armstrong.

Don't believe in every conspiracy you can think of.

[Tonitrus]

A big part of the problem is the way we've been pussyfooting around with groups like ISIL.  They've got strong enough territorial control- I say we recognize them as the legitimate government.  That way, their actions constitute a declaration of war and we can drop the hammer on them in a way we haven't been able to since Vietnam.  Then, when we've brought them into a conventional war and thoroughly gutted them, we "partition" the ISIL territory and give it back to the sovereigns it belonged to before the start of the war (extra brownie points if all parties can carve out a little Kurdish territory without much fuss).

It would also set a precedent that, instead of the messaging being "stop acting like a petulant child- that happens to be committing mass murder on a daily basis" and "stop asking for war, or you'll get it."

Agreed.  Time to send in an MEF and ROFL-stomp them.

[grumbler]

A big part of the problem is the way we've been pussyfooting around with groups like ISIL.  They've got strong enough territorial control- I say we recognize them as the legitimate government.  That way, their actions constitute a declaration of war and we can drop the hammer on them in a way we haven't been able to since Vietnam.  Then, when we've brought them into a conventional war and thoroughly gutted them, we "partition" the ISIL territory and give it back to the sovereigns it belonged to before the start of the war (extra brownie points if all parties can carve out a little Kurdish territory without much fuss).

It would also set a precedent that, instead of the messaging being "stop acting like a petulant child- that happens to be committing mass murder on a daily basis" and "stop asking for war, or you'll get it."

Agreed.  Time to send in an MEF and ROFL-stomp them.

For how many years do you intend to commit this MEF, and what do you do when they withdraw and ISIS re-emerges?  We aren't going to win this by playing wack-a-mole.

[Jacob]

Go ahead, attack me. Play your "cool" when people are being burned alive, beheaded and stoned to death. I'm sure it will make you appear all rational, aloof and collected.

I wasn't attacking you. I was making a distinction between being willing to fight and being willing to have other people fight for you. And, having made that distinction, I was wondering what you were willing to actually fight for yourself.

This does not mean I endorse burning people alive, beheadings, or stonings. In fact, I probably agree with you on the deserved fates of the perpetrators of these barbaric acts.

But the thing is, even if the entire leadership and fighting cadres of the ISIL, as well as their ideological enablers, all perish of some combination of bombings, executions, and up-close combat, it is very unlikely that I will have done any actual fighting. Cheering on other people to shed blood is different from shedding that blood yourself, and I don't think any good comes of conflating those two.

Raz at least has an excuse of being insane. What's yours, besides moral cowardice?

My excuse is that occasionally I fail at self-discipline and read and reply to your posts in good faith

[Jacob]

It may look "guided by policies' to you, but it certainly doesn't to me.  Mostly, because I don't believe in these nebulous "policies" that no one creates and no one enforces, but which have some mysterious "guiding" power anyway.

The media where you are may have "pretty much ignored" beheadings in Iraq during the war there, but here in the US, the name "Daniel Pearl" is still recognized as a victim of beheading.  Ditto, to a lesser extent (because Pearl was the first and therefor most shocking case) for Jack Hensley, Nicholas Berg, and Eugene Armstrong.

Don't believe in every conspiracy you can think of.

Yeah, I certainly recall extensive media covering (and languish discussions, of the usual caliber) of those beheadings.

[Drakken]

Jordan news report that six ISIS prisoners will be moved to a prison with death row facilities to be executed within the next few hours.

[citizen k]

Apparently the pilot was executed Jan. 3, so that's why ISIS refused to include the Jordanian in the recent hostage negotiations.

[Martinus]

Jordan news report that six ISIS prisoners will be moved to a prison with death row facilities to be executed within the next few hours.

Good. Pity they won't drown them in vats of pig fat.

[Caliga]

An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind, Mart.

[Jacob]

An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind, Mart.

Also, pig fat is better used for cooking.

[Caliga]

Makes a mean chili, yep.

[Razgovory]

Hey, this is an opportunity for Marty to do something rather then just bloviate!  I have it on good authority that Marty has a lot of extra fat, maybe he can part with some for the war effort!