The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant Megathread

[Razgovory]

What about when they use guns?  Did their prophet tell them to do that as well?  Not everyone executed by ISIS has been a beheading.

[Valmy]

Just because they call themselves the Islamic State should not lead one to believe anything they do has anything to do with Islam.

[Razgovory]

The question is whether or not the beheading are dictated by their religion.  If it were true, then we'd have a lot of beheading everywhere.  I have no reason to think that the Muslims of Morocco or Bangladesh are any less devout then the ones in Syria.  Yet they are not sending out beheading videos.

[Valmy]

The question is whether or not the beheading are dictated by their religion.  If it were true, then we'd have a lot of beheading everywhere.  I have no reason to think that the Muslims of Morocco or Bangladesh are any less devout then the ones in Syria.  Yet they are not sending out beheading videos.

You know how it goes.  The nutty ones are always perceived as the most devout, like "Fundamentalist Christians" and "Ultra-Orthodox Jews" (they are like super Jews or something).

Particularly Viking he pretty much only takes the most insane religious people as the true religious people.

However I think the Islamic State folks are making some sort of Islamic religious point with these beheadings, a crazy one I suspect many erudite Muslim clerics would disagree with but hey that is how it works everywhere.

[Razgovory]

I suspect that they executing people in this way to inflame western opinion.  Executing someone by beheading is a particularly gruesome and painful way to kill someone (at least with a knife).  I think it's chosen primarily for the shock value.  Now as to why they want to piss off the West is anyone's guess.  Seems counterproductive to me.  Perhaps it's some millenarian thing or maybe they really buy into that clash of civilizations nonsense.

[Valmy]

I suspect that they executing people in this way to inflame western opinion.  Executing someone by beheading is a particularly gruesome and painful way to kill someone (at least with a knife).  I think it's chosen primarily for the shock value.  Now as to why they want to piss off the West is anyone's guess.  Seems counterproductive to me.  Perhaps it's some millenarian thing or maybe they really buy into that clash of civilizations nonsense.

We are not the only audience, it is also to gain them credibility and recruits amongst the nutty Islamic fanatics.

However they also want to the Americans to attack them.  They want the American boots on the ground so they can gain credibility by killing Western soldiers.  This will also lend them prestige and credibility as leaders of the nutty Muslim world. 

[Razgovory]

Some of them seem to want to piss off the French, which strikes me as a really bad idea.  The French can be rather ruthless.

[CountDeMoney]

However they also want to the Americans to attack them.  They want the American boots on the ground so they can gain credibility by killing Western soldiers.  This will also lend them prestige and credibility as leaders of the nutty Muslim world.

That idea has been parroted around for years, and it never really works out for these guys.  Street cred doesn't mean anything when you're dead.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Part of me worries that Erdogan looks at IS and thinks, "I like the cut of their jib; they have the right ideas!"

"The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers..."
―Recep Tayyip Erdogan

clear enough I think

[Tamas]

When will the US get tough with the Saudi and Gulf princes financing this and other groups ?


15 of 19.
2 UAE too.

I wanted to write: when they wont need Gulf oil anymore, and it made me think: is it possible that the Saudis are in these powerplays because the US is getting closer of not needing them?

[Viking]

The question is whether or not the beheading are dictated by their religion.  If it were true, then we'd have a lot of beheading everywhere.  I have no reason to think that the Muslims of Morocco or Bangladesh are any less devout then the ones in Syria.  Yet they are not sending out beheading videos.

You know how it goes.  The nutty ones are always perceived as the most devout, like "Fundamentalist Christians" and "Ultra-Orthodox Jews" (they are like super Jews or something).

Particularly Viking he pretty much only takes the most insane religious people as the true religious people.

However I think the Islamic State folks are making some sort of Islamic religious point with these beheadings, a crazy one I suspect many erudite Muslim clerics would disagree with but hey that is how it works everywhere.

The bolded bit: the thing is NONE OF THEM ARE TRUE. Their religions are not fact so there is no such thing as "true religion" since no religion is true. Islam is what muslims do while practicing Islam.

The IS beheaders are making a religious point by beheading rather than just killing. They did massacring thing by lining their enemies up and mowing them down with machine guns too. It's not just about striking fear in the heart of the infidel (which is one reason they are told to do it) it is also about demonstrating their Jihad and Muslim Credentials to any supporters, donors and recruits. "Join our Jihad, it's the only one that really follows the example of the Prophet. The other Jihadis are inferior Jihadis as they drink alcohol and take Jews and Christians for friends."

IS does murder for religious reasons and it prefers beheading for religious reasons. Any attempt to understand their motivations without considering the religious reasoning of the person doing the beheading and not taking into account the reasons they themselves give for doing what they do is self delusional. 

[Razgovory]

If Islam is what Muslims do when practicing Islam I guess the Koran is pretty big on coming to the US and driving a taxi.

[Viking]

If Islam is what Muslims do when practicing Islam I guess the Koran is pretty big on coming to the US and driving a taxi.

Find me the muslim who drives a taxi because he is a muslim and then and only then will your statement make sense.

[garbon]

Raz, why are you continuing this conversation with Viking?

[garbon]

However they also want to the Americans to attack them.  They want the American boots on the ground so they can gain credibility by killing Western soldiers.  This will also lend them prestige and credibility as leaders of the nutty Muslim world.

That idea has been parroted around for years, and it never really works out for these guys.  Street cred doesn't mean anything when you're dead.

Indeed.