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Do you have free will?

Started by Savonarola, June 04, 2014, 04:25:26 PM

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Do you have free will?

I'm predestined to vote yes
9 (30%)
I've decided to vote no
10 (33.3%)
Of course, I have every Rush single
11 (36.7%)

Total Members Voted: 30

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Savonarola

#15
June 04, 2014, 05:08:45 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 04, 2014, 04:29:55 PM
How would you detect a difference between free will and not free will?

The existence of anything that would violate causality, such as my tachyon ray gun, would demonstrate not free will.
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

Ideologue

#16
June 04, 2014, 05:09:37 PM
The existence of physical laws demonstrate not free will.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

The Brain

#17
June 04, 2014, 05:11:30 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on June 04, 2014, 05:08:45 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 04, 2014, 04:29:55 PM
How would you detect a difference between free will and not free will?

The existence of anything that would violate causality, such as my tachyon ray gun, would demonstrate not free will.

Is there such a tachyon ray gun or similar device?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Caliga

#18
June 04, 2014, 08:59:38 PM
That is a fucking great song. :punk:
0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

PDH

#19
June 04, 2014, 09:50:42 PM
I have free won't.
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM

lustindarkness

#20
June 04, 2014, 10:03:42 PM
Well played Sav.
Grand Duke of Lurkdom

Razgovory

#21
June 04, 2014, 10:07:18 PM
Ahh, the old Tachyon pistol duel.  The best answer is that Tachyon pistols are impossible.  Such is the problem with all FTL devices.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

#22
June 04, 2014, 10:08:23 PM
Incidentally I meant to pick yes but picked no on accident. :lol:
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

jimmy olsen

#23
June 04, 2014, 10:25:13 PM Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 10:50:38 PM by jimmy olsen
Quote from: Savonarola on June 04, 2014, 04:25:26 PM
I've been listening to a series of lectures by Richard Muller (the physicist who theorized the existence of the sun's evil twin, Nemesis.)  One of the things he discussed was tachyons (which are super-luminal particles.)

If I had a tachyon ray gun, and were to shoot you from your frame of reference the ray would hit you and then I would pull the trigger.  In relativity theory all frames of reference are valid; so you being shot violates causality, I must pull the trigger after you have been shot.

Muller said he made the decision not to work in the field of tachyons because he believes he has free will; (at least in the very limited sense that he could decide not to shoot someone) so in his conception of the universe tachyons cannot exist.

Aren't going faster than light and violations of causality against the theory of relativity? If so, then why do we assume that its assumption that all frames of reference of valid is still true?
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Admiral Yi

#24
June 04, 2014, 10:49:51 PM
Seems the logical error there is the assumption that causality requires precedence.

dps

#25
June 05, 2014, 12:29:33 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on June 04, 2014, 04:32:43 PM
Our biological hardware imposes certain limits, but within those, yes, we have a certain amount of leeway/free will. I can postpone eating for a while and come to no great harm but not indefinetly, etc.

You can willingly postpone eating past the point at which you come to harm, if you're willing to accept the consequences.  Doesn't necessarily mean that you make that choice freely, though.

Viking

#26
June 05, 2014, 12:38:04 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 04, 2014, 05:02:42 PM
Quote from: Viking on June 04, 2014, 04:57:22 PM
The question confused me a bit.. what kind of free will? there are many kinds.

In any case the brain is a material thing and the mind is an appearance of agency the brain uses to perform tasks.

What sort of tasks?  Is my brain doing some sort of task and so forces me to post on Languish?  Well that would explain some things.

y'know, getting laid, having a job, picking up groceries, making friends tasks like that.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Savonarola

#27
June 05, 2014, 07:37:05 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 04, 2014, 10:25:13 PM
Aren't going faster than light and violations of causality against the theory of relativity? If so, then why do we assume that its assumption that all frames of reference of valid is still true?

Reaching the speed of light for a particle with mass is impossible according to the theory of relativity.  Tachyons are theorized to have imaginary mass; so could travel faster than light and not violate relativity.

Relativity does not require causality.  Even Einstein theorized the wormhole (Einstein-Rosen bridge) which would also violate causality.
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

Razgovory

#28
June 05, 2014, 08:15:01 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2014, 10:49:51 PM
Seems the logical error there is the assumption that causality requires precedence.

Elaborate (this is not a Raz trick or trap, I'm genuinely curious).
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

jimmy olsen

#29
June 05, 2014, 08:20:46 AM
I would also like to know what you mean by that Yi.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point
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