Staind singer stops concert to demand audience members stop ‘molesting’ teen

[merithyn]

"Don't dress like a slut and you won't be raped."

"Don't walk alone at night and you won't be harassed."

"Don't body surf at a concert and you won't be groped."

*shrugs*

Or, you know, teach people that there is never a justification for rape, harassment, or groping. That's an option, too.

  You went Full Meri. I sort of expected that.

And you went full derspeiss.

Valmy and garbon are saying the same things, but you pulled my comment out to mock.

It's okay. One day, you'll get to watch your little girl be in an "awkward" situation and get to say the same things to her.

[derspiess]

It's okay. One day, you'll get to watch your little girl be in an "awkward" situation and get to say the same things to her.

Hopefully she won't get in that situation in the first place.  I'll do my best to teach her to exercise common sense and to minimize risks to herself, just as I will with Tommy. 

[merithyn]

It's okay. One day, you'll get to watch your little girl be in an "awkward" situation and get to say the same things to her.

Hopefully she won't get in that situation in the first place.  I'll do my best to teach her to exercise common sense and to minimize risks to herself, just as I will with Tommy.

Might also help to teach Tommy that it's not okay to grope just because a girl is in an "awkward" position. 'Cause, you know, that's an option, too.

[Valmy]

It's okay. One day, you'll get to watch your little girl be in an "awkward" situation and get to say the same things to her.

Hopefully she won't get in that situation in the first place.  I'll do my best to teach her to exercise common sense and to minimize risks to herself, just as I will with Tommy. 

Well of course.  I am just saying if she does get molested because she got excited and crowd surfed in a concert, it is the molester who is 100% responsible.  People who crowd surf are not asking to be molested nor are responsible for being molested.  Granted common sense would suggest it is not a very safe thing to do, people may drop you on your head and shit.

[derspiess]

Might also help to teach Tommy that it's not okay to grope just because a girl is in an "awkward" position. 'Cause, you know, that's an option, too.

Uh, okay Meri.  What makes you think I'd raise him any differently than that?

[derspiess]

Well of course.  I am just saying if she does get molested because she got excited and crowd surfed in a concert, it is the molester who is 100% responsible.  People who crowd surf are not asking to be molested nor are responsible for being molested.  Granted common sense would suggest it is not a very safe thing to do, people may drop you on your head and shit.

In terms of who is at fault, I agree with you entirely. 

[grumbler]

So we are saying it is the child's fault for being illegally molested and not the adults?  That strikes me as where one would go with this.

I don;'t see why you excuse the adult here.  That seems retarded.  However, it is also dumb to allow children to interact with adults in ways which force the adults to physically handle strange children.  Even under the best of circumstances, that seems like a thing to avoid.  Children can be taught this, like they are taught not to take candy from strangers or not to cross the street without looking both ways.

So my policy would be to blame criminals, and also teach children to avoid putting themselves at risk.  Your policy seems to avoid both.

[merithyn]

Might also help to teach Tommy that it's not okay to grope just because a girl is in an "awkward" position. 'Cause, you know, that's an option, too.

Uh, okay Meri.  What makes you think I'd raise him any differently than that?

I don't know if you are or aren't. It seems to be rarely brought up to boys at all, but maybe your household is different. I hope so.

Well of course.  I am just saying if she does get molested because she got excited and crowd surfed in a concert, it is the molester who is 100% responsible.  People who crowd surf are not asking to be molested nor are responsible for being molested.  Granted common sense would suggest it is not a very safe thing to do, people may drop you on your head and shit.

In terms of who is at fault, I agree with you entirely. 

When you say, "well, if they didn't want to get groped, maybe they shouldn't have crowd surfed", you are blaming the person who was groped. You are putting the "fault" on them.

[merithyn]

I don;'t see why you excuse the adult here.  That seems retarded.  However, it is also dumb to allow children to interact with adults in ways which force the adults to physically handle strange children.  Even under the best of circumstances, that seems like a thing to avoid.  Children can be taught this, like they are taught not to take candy from strangers or not to cross the street without looking both ways.

So my policy would be to blame criminals, and also teach children to avoid putting themselves at risk.  Your policy seems to avoid both.

I agree. However, when a child does get molested, few people say, "Well, that child should have known better than to be there in the first place." Or "well, that mother should have known her boyfriend would do something like that." No, the blame falls directly where it belongs, on the person who did the molesting.

However, when it comes to women - and men - the blame is often shared between the person who did the molesting and the person who was molested. "Wow, sucks she was raped, but why the hell was she drinking at a party??"

[grumbler]

So no crowded concerts, no crowded subways?

  Um, okay.

How are you going to manage that?   

BTW, MTA's policy is that a crowded subway is no excuse for groping.

Sounds reasonable.  What's their policy on crowd surfing in a crowded subway?

[derspiess]

I don't know if you are or aren't. It seems to be rarely brought up to boys at all, but maybe your household is different. I hope so.

Your assumption seemed to be that I'm not.  And "keep your hands to yourself" is something people tell boys (and girls) all the time.

When you say, "well, if they didn't want to get groped, maybe they shouldn't have crowd surfed", you are blaming the person who was groped. You are putting the "fault" on them.

When did I say that? 

[derspiess]

However, when it comes to women - and men - the blame is often shared between the person who did the molesting and the person who was molested. "Wow, sucks she was raped, but why the hell was she drinking at a party??"

Who says that?

[Valmy]

Who says that?

I hear that shit all the time.  Even in court settings.  Makes me so freaking frustrated.

[merithyn]

Your assumption seemed to be that I'm not.  And "keep your hands to yourself" is something people tell boys (and girls) all the time.

As I said, it's rarely taught to boys that it's not okay to touch a girl when she doesn't expressly tell him that it's okay. That's a bit different than "keep your hands to yourself".

When did I say that? 

"You" in the global sense.

[merithyn]

However, when it comes to women - and men - the blame is often shared between the person who did the molesting and the person who was molested. "Wow, sucks she was raped, but why the hell was she drinking at a party??"

Who says that?

Everyone?