What is the difference between Canada and the US re: socialism

[Ed Anger]

Do 1000.  The place of a woman is in the home.

[Berkut]

So while there are some differences of course, it really does seem like they are differences of degree, and not that much at all.

I remain convinced that both the US and Canada are pretty much the same in the broad strokes - they are both market capitalist economies on a social welfare state, with the primary differences simply being around the margins largely, and mostly in perception.

The biggest difference that I can tell is that Canada is not afraid of simply calling it like it is, while the US pretends like we are not really doing socialist-like things, but actually do in fact do those very things.

A good example is the mentioned state subsidizing of higher education. Canadians are quite proud of this, and Americans we do the exact same thing, but call it "loans" and "grants" and such, even while both the states and the federal government in many cases provide direct funding to public universities. There is no difference - if you want to go to most state schools in the US, you can do so at very reasonable rates, I suspect largely similar in the end to what a student pays in Canada for a public education.

On a scale of 1-10, Canada might be a 6.5 on the "How welfare state are you" and the US is a 6, but we pretend like we are a 4.

[Jacob]

That seems pretty accurate to me Berkut.

[celedhring]

Just checked the "Economic Freedom Index" over at Heritage (yeah, I know), and Canada and the US have extremely similar tax burden and public spending as % of GNP figures.

http://www.heritage.org/index/explore?view=by-variables

I'll also say that the same applies to US and Western Europe - the differences are just of degree, but I was shocked when I lived in the US to find so many people thinking we didn't have fundamentally the same economic system.

There are three big socialist policies, imho:

- Government-sponsored health care
- Government-sponsored pensions/social security
- Government-sponsored education

The US has all three, even if not to the level of other western nations. Other stuff like unemployment insurance, public transportation, poverty relief... the US has it too.

As Berkut says, it's just a difference of degree, and not that huge a degree when you start thinking about it.

[The Brain]

Just checked the "Economic Freedom Index" over at Heritage (yeah, I know), and Canada and the US have extremely similar tax burden and public spending as % of GNP figures.

http://www.heritage.org/index/explore?view=by-variables

I'll also say that the same applies to US and Western Europe - the differences are just of degree, but I was shocked when I lived in the US to find so many people thinking we didn't have fundamentally the same economic system.

There are three big socialist policies, imho:

- Government-sponsored health care
- Government-sponsored pensions/social security
- Government-sponsored education

The US has all three, even if not to the level of other western nations. Other stuff like unemployment insurance, public transportation, poverty relief... the US has it too.

As Berkut says, it's just a difference of degree, and not that huge a degree when you start thinking about it.

Thanks Obama.

[Grey Fox]

or, you know, Nixon.

[viper37]

But can anyone tell me what about Canada makes them more socialist than the US, outside of healthcare?

Americans are more individualistic, taking care of their own affairs, there's a general feeling that everything is your responsibility, from health care to justice, hence the lax gun control laws and the high crime rate.
In Canada, there's a general feeling that government or collectivity should take care of things, even from the right wing Conservative party (closer to the Democrat's ideas of government than the Tea Party) instead of the individual.  Hence, the state funded healthcare, the youth programs past&present (Katimavik, being an example), and the relative strenght of Canadian law enforcements agencies compared to the multitude of segmented US law enforcement agencies.

[viper37]

A good example is the mentioned state subsidizing of higher education. Canadians are quite proud of this, and Americans we do the exact same thing, but call it "loans" and "grants" and such, even while both the states and the federal government in many cases provide direct funding to public universities. There is no difference - if you want to go to most state schools in the US, you can do so at very reasonable rates, I suspect largely similar in the end to what a student pays in Canada for a public education.

Tuition rates are more equalized than in the US, in any given province, you'd pay about the same for tuition fees, instead of having a 'free' state funded university in Massachussetts and Harvard at 30 000$ per term.  Although there are of course some exceptions, but generally very limited in scope (say, one specific MBA program in one university would be 20k$ while all other programes would be 1700$).

I believe all provinces also have student loans and grants, on top of government financing (both Federal and Provincial funding).

[viper37]

So the difference is that the US doesn't have a national policy requiring paid vacation, and Canada does.  The number of days is actually not relevant and varies anyways.

It's provincial responsibility, not federal.  Each province have their own labour code.  The only thing Federal is the requirement to at least pay union fees when there is a union present in your workplace (joining the union is your choice, but paying your union dues is mandatory wether you join or not).

[The Brain]

The only thing Federal is the requirement to at least pay union fees when there is a union present in your workplace (joining the union is your choice, but paying your union dues is mandatory wether you join or not).

How the fuck is this legal?

[DGuller]

Would you prefer free-riding?

[The Brain]

Would you prefer free-riding?

[Grey Fox]

The only thing Federal is the requirement to at least pay union fees when there is a union present in your workplace (joining the union is your choice, but paying your union dues is mandatory wether you join or not).

How the fuck is this legal?

Because Lobby.

[viper37]

The only thing Federal is the requirement to at least pay union fees when there is a union present in your workplace (joining the union is your choice, but paying your union dues is mandatory wether you join or not).

How the fuck is this legal?

A judge decided it a long time ago, so it's legal.

[Zanza]

Would you prefer free-riding?

Yes.