UKIP poster boy is a racist immigrant, film at 11

[Tamas]

Taking UK out of Europe would be a disaster. For the UK for sure. Possibly for the rest of Europe as well IF they would fail to "punish" UK for leaving (with tariffs and whatnot).

[The Brain]

No country is an island.

[Gups]

Sheilbh is conflicted about whether or not to vote to take us out of Europe (as is Gups?) That's not the same as being tempted by/to vote for UKIP.

Nope. I have no doubt that withdrawing from Europe woudl be a catastrophe for the economy pluinging us into another horrible recession. I would not only vote to stay in the EU, I'd volunteer for the campaign and donate money to it.

I only differ from my fellow pro-EUers in that I recognise that there are some significant downsides and I do think that while immigration is generally a good thing, the levels in the last few years put huge strains on the the country's infrastructure and wage rates. I think UKIP's POV is reasonably arguable and I intensely dislike that their voters are accused of being closet racists and loons etc, it's boorish and counter-productive.

[The Brain]

Languish is boorish and counter-productive. Do you dislike us as well?

[Martinus]

No country is an island.

Speak for yourself.

[Sheilbh]

Sheilbh is strongly tempted by them.

I'm really not. I want to understand and I hate snobbishness.

But Age is right I'm unsure how I'd vote in a referendum. Though for the sort of reasons Mehdi Hasan has here and I worry that the position of non-Eurozone (and never going to be Eurozone) members is not nearly protected enough.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/eu-referendum-democracy_b_6190712.html?&ir=UK

Edit: Also I still think there's a European head in the sand thing happening with all the talk about the UK. In terms of impact to the European (economy) far bigger, to my mind, is whether Italy will stay in the Euro and the Karlsruhe ruling.

In terms of the free movement of labour I think the real worry is France. Right now Sarko is campaigning for huge changes to Schengen (to create a more elite Schengen II) and Le Pen wants to leave the EU altogether - between them they're polling around 60-70%. If you think a British renegotiation in 2017 will be bad try a recently elected right wing French government aggressively setting at free movement.

[Sheilbh]

Oh and on the actual election the Lib Dems did manage to beat off the Loonies and the dominatrix. They came fifth, but lost their deposit and won 350 votes or 0.87%

[mongers]

Sheilbh is conflicted about whether or not to vote to take us out of Europe (as is Gups?) That's not the same as being tempted by/to vote for UKIP.

Nope. I have no doubt that withdrawing from Europe woudl be a catastrophe for the economy pluinging us into another horrible recession. I would not only vote to stay in the EU, I'd volunteer for the campaign and donate money to it.

I only differ from my fellow pro-EUers in that I recognise that there are some significant downsides and I do think that while immigration is generally a good thing, the levels in the last few years put huge strains on the the country's infrastructure and wage rates. I think UKIP's POV is reasonably arguable and I intensely dislike that their voters are accused of being closet racists and loons etc, it's boorish and counter-productive.

What a reasoned and thoroughly reasonable post; I have to ask, what are you doing posting on languish? 

[Sheilbh]

I love Dennis Skinner:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30141159

[Tamas]

I love Dennis Skinner:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30141159

Earlier this week, Mr Reckless suggested that some EU citizens living in the UK would only be able to stay for a "transitional period" if the UK left the European Union - although he and his party later clarified the comments to say anyone legally in the UK would be able to stay.

See? They are either full of crap or totally clueless. If you are an EU citizen then you are in the UK legally. There are no illegal border-tresspassers from within the EU.

One more proof that while maybe some of the UKIP politicans have reasonable intentions, they are constantly laying down for the xenophobs to gain votes, and just like all the other similar movements in history, they will NOT be able to control the lunatic part of their supporters and functionaries once they are in power.

[Tamas]

At any rate I wish this thing would just move on faster. If being the financial and service center of Europe is so horrible, the UK should just leave and figure out if they also want to toss me and the rest of the EU immigrants out or not. It's kind of annoying to try and plan for a future when a rapidly rising political force puts you (ok, the group you belong to, but that is the same thing) in the forefront as the cause of all trouble.

Meh.

[The Brain]

What's amusing is that the EU would rather lose the UK than lose Romania.

[Sheilbh]

At any rate I wish this thing would just move on faster. If being the financial and service center of Europe is so horrible, the UK should just leave and figure out if they also want to toss me and the rest of the EU immigrants out or not. It's kind of annoying to try and plan for a future when a rapidly rising political force puts you (ok, the group you belong to, but that is the same thing) in the forefront as the cause of all trouble.

You've got the UKIP view there though. Even they don't want to kick people out.

Anyway sorry but you'll have to deal with this for a while. We've got a general election in 2015 and then, if the Tories win, a couple of years of attempted renegotiation prior to a referendum or, if Labour win, no referendum unless there's a new treaty. Of course more likely is that neither win and we're heading into unknown territory.

It'd be exciting if the options weren't so depressing

[Tamas]

What's amusing is that the EU would rather lose the UK than lose Romania.

No. The EU would rather lose the UK than desintegrate due to either making compromises on the very basic core values the whole thing was put together for, or for letting one member drop all the duties and keep all the benefits.

[Tamas]

You've got the UKIP view there though. Even they don't want to kick people out.

Earlier this week, Mr Reckless suggested that some EU citizens living in the UK would only be able to stay for a "transitional period" if the UK left the European Union

That's their MP. Telling that people, of whom the vast majority is working here and contributing, would be handled an eviction notice from the country if he had his way. And he just got elected.