UKIP poster boy is a racist immigrant, film at 11

[Martinus]

This is one of the four freedoms of the internal market, the very core of the European Union. There is really nothing to discuss here. If Britain can't accept these anymore, it's time to leave.

I think you are right and if the Tories win the next election we may well be heading for an exit. Cameron is wedged between a rock and a hard place.

If this happens, I would feel kinda silly for not supporting Scottish independence.

[Martinus]

We could always invite the UK into NAFTA. 

Most of the British trade is with the EU, so this is not going to help much. And I can see London being eclipsed by both New York and Frankfurt as two financial centers of the NAFTA and the EU, respectively, as a result of such a move. Britain, meanwhile, could go ahead with its V for Vendetta dystopian scenario.

[PJL]

I think it's probably for the best if we do leave the EU. Ever since the eurozone crises, the dynamics of the EU has changed. Instead of various interest groups competing for a slice of the pie which at least meant we could do deals with others and get the best we can, it is effective now the eurozone group vs everyone else (and most of those want to join the euro eventually). As a result the EU now operates for the benefit of the eurozone, as they are a majority (at least in theory, in practice that really means Germany), and that non eurozone countries have no real negotiating power. Of course we could join the eurozone to get some power back, however that would be political suicide right now (hell even arguing for the EU is now political suicide right now).

What's making it worse is the current malaise in the Eurozone means it is distorting the free market so that there is a large migration from the eurozone to non eurozone countries. This is exacerbated by the fact English is the universal second language these days, hence Britain is now the first choice for many in the Eurozone. So we effectively have no power within the EU and yet have to face all the consequences of being within the EU. At least if we left we could control some of the market distortions.

[Tamas]

All those horrible consequences of cheap motivated labour and skilled workforce coming to the country. Truly a disaster.

[Martinus]

Sorry, Tamas. You are distorting the market.

[PJL]

Sorry, Tamas. You are distorting the market.

No, it's the EU that is distorting the market. Either have a free market with similar economies without a currency or political union. OR have one with currency and political union (even with disparate economies). By falling between two stools, the EU has got the worst of both worlds. That is why Europe a la carte can't work either.

[Tamas]

I know there are issues, and Hod knows I have grown to hate the over-regulated nature of the EU, but painting a picture where the UK is a victim of the common market and free movement of workforce is quite the stretch isn't it?

[PJL]

I know there are issues, and Hod knows I have grown to hate the over-regulated nature of the EU, but painting a picture where the UK is a victim of the common market and free movement of workforce is quite the stretch isn't it?

It's not the common market & free movement of workers that's the problem. It's the Eurozone policies that are distorting the market. If that was fixed then there would a more functional market in the EU. Fact is, the EU either a purely free trade only block or a political & economic union. Anything else wouldn't work.

[PJL]

Incidentally, Merkel's position re the EU is similar to Cameron's in the Scottish independence vote in unyielding to any more devolution proposals, until of course that infamous YouGov poll showing the indies in the lead. My guess it will do a similar thing here and harden opinion here against the EU.

[Tamas]

I know there are issues, and Hod knows I have grown to hate the over-regulated nature of the EU, but painting a picture where the UK is a victim of the common market and free movement of workforce is quite the stretch isn't it?

It's not the common market & free movement of workers that's the problem. It's the Eurozone policies that are distorting the market. If that was fixed then there would a more functional market in the EU. Fact is, the EU either a purely free trade only block or a political & economic union. Anything else wouldn't work.

I agree that the EU is now stuck on the ground between two chairs by being both a trade and a political union while also not being either. But packing up and leaving is hardly a solution.
Face it: the main reason this is a hot topic in the UK is that it is a nice channeling of dissent: the EU is the perfect bad guy, since it has a lot of flaws, it is seemingly everywhere, yet way too complex for the average joe to comprehend. Same shit is going down in Hungary, but on a bigger scale: we have problems? Well its obviously the EU's fault!

Add the nice sugary coat of "immigrants are taking our jobs" and you have an easy ticket to populist election success.

And Cameron is making the textbook moderate right mistake of trying to outbid the populist far right in idiocy.

[Josquius]

Its not a hot topic in the uk. Only around 10% of the population rates the eu as an important issue either way. No matter how important the media says it is

[Iormlund]

I think economics is the single least important part of politics.

Income distribution, stagnant wages, unemployment, national budgets: all unimportant?

In terms of how people vote: yes.

Nonsense.

Take a look at the political landscape in Club Med: Syriza and New Dawn in Greece, M5S in Italy or Podemos in Spain (which some polls rank first now). None of those where a thing before the crisis.

[Gups]

Its not a hot topic in the uk. Only around 10% of the population rates the eu as an important issue either way. No matter how important the media says it is

Nonsense. It's a massively important topic for a huge number of people in this country. In the last "issues" poll for Yougov more people picked immigration as one of the three most important issues facing the country than any other topic including the economy and health.

Europe polled 4th, ahead of education, crime, tax, welfare and housing.

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/jxo2nz2p9p/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Issues(2)-Most-important-issues-281014.pdf

[Zanza]

Oh but Hungary can basically run a fascist state and Germany has no problem with that.

I am the first to say that Germany shouldn't cozy up so much to Orban, but I don't really see how the foreign policy towards Hungary is relevant when discussing the foreign policy towards Britain.

[Zanza]

At least if we left we could control some of the market distortions.

Like what?