UKIP poster boy is a racist immigrant, film at 11

[Martinus]

The hell are you talking about? Libertarianism is basically nonexistant in Hungary.

It is quite popular with the dumber Poles.

[Eddie Teach]

"Why" is a silly question at best, maybe even dangerous.

It's an important one to ask before making moral judgments.

[Admiral Yi]

One of the most common definitions of "fairness" is "to each according to his needs, from each according to his means". Your worldview must be very limited if you think that "to each and from each the same" is the only (or most popular) definition.

That one didn't work out too well historically.

[Tamas]

One of the most common definitions of "fairness" is "to each according to his needs, from each according to his means". Your worldview must be very limited if you think that "to each and from each the same" is the only (or most popular) definition.

That one didn't work out too well historically.

No shit right?  A Pole of all people should know that communism isn't that fabulous.

[Richard Hakluyt]

As a layabout i really hate the idea of ".......from each according to his ability......"

[Tamas]

What I hate is "according to his needs"

What is a need? Shelter so one doesn't freeze to death, food and water to stay alive. Those are NEEDS. Everything else are WANTS. Whichever of those wants get on the list of needs gets decided in these systems (especially the socialist ones Marty seems to crave) by committees and lawmakers etc. Other people, in other words. I guess I should refer you people to my signature for this one.

[Tamas]

"Why" is a silly question at best, maybe even dangerous.

It's an important one to ask before making moral judgments.

I don't want tax laws making moral judgements that's sort of the point.

[Eddie Teach]

I don't want tax laws making moral judgements that's sort of the point.

Calling a flat tax "fair" or "unfair" is a moral judgment.

[Tamas]

I don't want tax laws making moral judgements that's sort of the point.

Calling a flat tax "fair" or "unfair" is a moral judgment.

You made the moral judgement by calling it unfair. In that context it is fair precisely because it lacks moral judgement.

[Razgovory]

Sadly, Tamas represents a typical worldview of someone from this part of the world. What never ceases to amaze me is that people like this seem so confident that they - heirs to a failed communist system - have somehow managed to discover the holy grail of socio-economic thought while all the Western Europeans are misguided fools clinging to their ideas.

Nah, this is goofball libertarianism.  The idea of wealth and property restrictions on franchise is typical of that weird breed.

[Razgovory]

Also don't get the whole flat tax thing started again. Flat taxation is the very definition of fair. It might be INADEQUATE to maintain the desired government spending (although you know my view there). So progressive taxation might be more efficient in getting the government what it wants (as much tax as possible without pissing the majority off) but that doesn't make it more fair.

Only when you consider the question of how much to take from people without regard to why they have as much as they do. Like I said, government in a vacuum.

"Why" is a silly question at best, maybe even dangerous. If somebody got their "wealth" illegally, the law should take it away. If it was obtained legally, then "why" is just vile populism with progressive taxation becoming a punishment of success.

Question: If a person inherits wealth that was obtained illegally should they be able to keep it?

[Martinus]

I don't want tax laws making moral judgements that's sort of the point.

Calling a flat tax "fair" or "unfair" is a moral judgment.

You made the moral judgement by calling it unfair. In that context it is fair precisely because it lacks moral judgement.

You are not making any sense. 

[Martinus]

As a layabout i really hate the idea of ".......from each according to his ability......"

I know you are joking, but for the benefit of the likes of Tamas, surely they are not arguing that people who are capable of working but choose not to should receive the same kind of state support as those who are unable to work?

[Admiral Yi]

Who is "they?" Marx and Engels?

[Martinus]

Who is "they?" Marx and Engels?

The "likes of Tamas". The fact that you are expecting everyone to contribute according to their ability is the cornerstone of modern social contract. Same with providing (or at least attempting to provide, as there are limited resources) to everyone according to their need.

The phrase might have originated in Marxism but has now been successfully subsumed into the Western social-democracy.