Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

[Syt]

I can't wait to try out this game.

This quote made me immediately think of you:
"Mathematical proof is the only foundation for ethics that I can respect. Progress in mathematics is progress in morality."
- Daoming Sochua, Scientific Morality Vol. I

[Martinus]

Funnily enough, I haven't seen a single time yet of Sochua going Supremacy. Meanwhile, the African leader seems to go Supremacy each time I meet him. 

[Martinus]

By the way, there are several mods already on Steam. My favourite: space papacy. The Supremacy Pope looks especially rad.

[Syt]

I wish the aliens were more interesting. As it is, they're barbarians, and if you leave them alone, they leave you alone (if you don't leave your workers unattended or get too close to their hives). All non-combat interaction with them is through techs and perks.

I guess I was hoping that your game choices and affinity would change alien behavior more drastically towards you (I don't know, being able to "tame" alien units if you go harmony, or going apeshit against you if you go purity), but even when they've gone from green to red they barely attack me. Also, from early midgame on, only the kraken and worms are a bit of a challenge to your units. I guess upping their aggression will help, but I was hoping there'd be more interaction than just combat.

[Martinus]

I wish the aliens were more interesting. As it is, they're barbarians, and if you leave them alone, they leave you alone (if you don't leave your workers unattended or get too close to their hives). All non-combat interaction with them is through techs and perks.

I guess I was hoping that your game choices and affinity would change alien behavior more drastically towards you (I don't know, being able to "tame" alien units if you go harmony, or going apeshit against you if you go purity), but even when they've gone from green to red they barely attack me. Also, from early midgame on, only the kraken and worms are a bit of a challenge to your units. I guess upping their aggression will help, but I was hoping there'd be more interaction than just combat.

You can build alien units at higher levels of Harmony, but I gotta say I agree - especially the "aliens remains a threat throughout the entire game" piece seems like they did not deliver on. It could be perhaps different at different speeds (I am playing on Quick). In fact, it seems like the game is not yet perfectly balanced between speeds (people on Marathon speed complain that they can't excavate expedition sites located in miasma before miasma immunity Harmony level because the explorer dies before the excavation ends for example).

So far it seems to me that levelling multiple Affinities is a way to go (with one staying dominant, but not exclusive) as there are many buildings in other affinities that help with health etc.

[Syt]

In my first game, going harmony, I left the aliens alone, because that seemed logical from a gameplay point of view. It was much later (turn 200) that I realized that this was not having any effect, and by that point I had units that could easily wipe out the aliens near my cities. Yes, They feel more like a nuisance than a constant threat.

I hope they'll add more factions as DLC relatively soon. I'd also like more info patched in: what build did my city just finished? What do the wonders that my opponents build do (direct link instead of having to go through the Civipedia)? How close are my opponents to winning? What is the diplomatic status between factions?

I hope the first major DLC will add:
- more interesting/interactive aliens (add a super alien near game end? have aliens level up?)
- planetary council mechanic
- more diversity for the affinities (liberal vs. fundamentalist)
- some sort of political system; the virtues feel a bit weak, thematically

[Martinus]

Hehe.

[Tamas]

I wish the aliens were more interesting. As it is, they're barbarians, and if you leave them alone, they leave you alone (if you don't leave your workers unattended or get too close to their hives). All non-combat interaction with them is through techs and perks.

I guess I was hoping that your game choices and affinity would change alien behavior more drastically towards you (I don't know, being able to "tame" alien units if you go harmony, or going apeshit against you if you go purity), but even when they've gone from green to red they barely attack me. Also, from early midgame on, only the kraken and worms are a bit of a challenge to your units. I guess upping their aggression will help, but I was hoping there'd be more interaction than just combat.

I am not sure. Alpha Centauri was brilliant but we shouldn't shackle all future similar games to go with the same storyline.

[Syt]

I generally agree, but in this case having the aliens is not doing much for the game besides being hindrance for early expansion.


Another item for my wishlist: more interaction with the independent stations. I like the idea of independent stations popping up, but giving them more function than "you get extra resources if you send a trade convoy" would be cool. I don't think full Civ V city state, but some diplomatic interaction, or making some of them "special" hubs for smugglers,  mercenaries, or prospectors would be cool. Send some gold diggers, some free ranchers or something for a bit more of a frontier feeling.

[Syt]

One more thing: if a faction is getting close to victory (esp. those victories with a ticking clock), it should say so somewhere, very visibly. And their rivals should attempt to stop them from achieving said victory. Declare war, and try to destroy the gate/mind flower/whatever. Ideally, this should trigger a war along affinity lines.

[Syt]

I guess what it comes down to is that I quite enjoy the game out of the box, but that there's so much potential for improvement still.

[Martinus]

I generally agree, but in this case having the aliens is not doing much for the game besides being hindrance for early expansion.


Another item for my wishlist: more interaction with the independent stations. I like the idea of independent stations popping up, but giving them more function than "you get extra resources if you send a trade convoy" would be cool. I don't think full Civ V city state, but some diplomatic interaction, or making some of them "special" hubs for smugglers,  mercenaries, or prospectors would be cool. Send some gold diggers, some free ranchers or something for a bit more of a frontier feeling.

Actually, this is handled through quests. As I already said, at one point I got a quest about refugees from a nearby station (with whom I had a lucrative, level 3 trade route) asking to get asylum in my faction (I was Purity at the time), claiming they have been experimented on. I agreed and after a few turns I got an envoy from the station saying that I should return them, as they are just children of the station and they don't know what they are doing, since every "adult" undergoes the same type of modifications there. I had an option to return the refugees (for a Harmony or Supremacy boost) or to refuse (Purity boost). I refused and then got a new pop-up, saying that my own people are now pressuring me to put the end to this abomination and destroy the station. Once I did so, I could then try to reverse the augmentation and re-settle the people in my colonies (Purity and I think Health boost) or to keep them isolated and study their modifications (Science boost).

Another time, I got offered a lucrative deal (bonus to trade routes for 20 turns with a station) if I destroy their rival, another station.

[Martinus]

I guess what it comes down to is that I quite enjoy the game out of the box, but that there's so much potential for improvement still.

I know. I hope they continue to develop the game. What you describe was very much the fault of vanilla CiV, but by BNW it has become the best game of the series. Hopefully, they will follow the same development route with Civ: BE.

The good thing is that the quest system has a lot of potential to introduce elements into the game that does not require a massive overhaul of the engine. I also hope the quests are quite moddable, and since they can give you Affinity, building bonuses or extra units, it seems like you could handle most of the stuff through this.

[Martinus]

I generally agree, but in this case having the aliens is not doing much for the game besides being hindrance for early expansion.


Another item for my wishlist: more interaction with the independent stations. I like the idea of independent stations popping up, but giving them more function than "you get extra resources if you send a trade convoy" would be cool. I don't think full Civ V city state, but some diplomatic interaction, or making some of them "special" hubs for smugglers,  mercenaries, or prospectors would be cool. Send some gold diggers, some free ranchers or something for a bit more of a frontier feeling.

Coming to think of it, I don't think stations in Civ: BE are *less* than city states in CiV - just different. You can still declare war on them and the bonuses you got from alliances in CiV are now represented by different levels of trade routes you get from them. Sure, they will not send you troops or have their own troops, but that's the only difference at the end of the day. And the AI factions still get pissed off if you destroy their favourite trading partner (Sochua did not forgive me I destroyed her favourite Harmony freaks).

[Tamas]

I generally agree, but in this case having the aliens is not doing much for the game besides being hindrance for early expansion.

Yeah but if the aliens are simply indigenous primitive lifeforms then having them as quasi barbarians in terms of early game roadblocks until you master the environment makes sense. Primitive aliens growing with you requires an Alpha Centauri-ish story. Which the  game may very well have, I have no idea, but I hope they just dropped it.