Nationalise the railways!

[Josquius]

It would appear to this casual observer that the coal industry was not a paragon of customer service and efficiency.

That wasn't a public service though was it.

[Tamas]

Well, that's obviously how it worked in the nationalized coal mines.

I don't understand this troll.

1) I understand the UK has had it's share of corrupt MPs

2) It would not be the MPs doing the company leadership and bookkeeping now would they?

1: Not to the extent you're talking about. Not in the current generation at least. To get close I have to think back to the 50s/60s, a totally different world.
2: They're the ones controlling its budget and having the final say on major decisions.

An engineer of a sidetrack repair depot submits the invoice for an extra roll of cabling which is needed. Will his supervisor know if that is indeed needed unless there is vigorous checks and such? No. The state-appointed director of a railway approves the budge for a train modernisation program. Will the MPs know if it is not 20-40% higher than it needs to be? Will YOU as a voter know if the MP hasn't been given 5% of that 20% to give his seal of approval?

Of course not.

And all of that can happen with subsidised private companies as well, before you say it. I am not saying to not be very wary of subsidising with tax money. And such inefficient overspending can MOST DEFINITELY happen in 100% private enterprises as well. You have no idea how much it can happen.
But at the end of the day, a private enterprise with no access to tax money can only be so much inefficient and it's employees corrupt before it falls. A state run can be as ineffective and corrupt as it dares to be forever, because there is no end of tax money and especially loaned bond money.

[Tamas]

It would appear to this casual observer that the coal industry was not a paragon of customer service and efficiency.

That wasn't a public service though was it.

Your point being?

[Valmy]

It would appear to this casual observer that the coal industry was not a paragon of customer service and efficiency.

That wasn't a public service though was it.

Production of fuel is not a public service?

[Admiral Yi]

That wasn't a public service though was it.

How so?

[Jacob]

I am sorry Tyr but that has to be the most naïve out-of-touch stuff I have read in a while.

Your stuff is pretty far out there as well.

[Tamas]

I am sorry Tyr but that has to be the most naïve out-of-touch stuff I have read in a while.

Your stuff is pretty far out there as well.

[Josquius]

How so?

Coal mining is an industry,

Production of fuel is not a public service?

Not really.
Maybe there were public service aspects with the people who actually delivered coal to the public but that was a rather small part of the business, if it was part of the nationalised industry at all (I don't know, I guess so).

An engineer of a sidetrack repair depot submits the invoice for an extra roll of cabling which is needed. Will his supervisor know if that is indeed needed unless there is vigorous checks and such? No. The state-appointed director of a railway approves the budge for a train modernisation program. Will the MPs know if it is not 20-40% higher than it needs to be? Will YOU as a voter know if the MP hasn't been given 5% of that 20% to give his seal of approval?

Of course not.

And all of that can happen with subsidised private companies as well, before you say it. I am not saying to not be very wary of subsidising with tax money. And such inefficient overspending can MOST DEFINITELY happen in 100% private enterprises as well. You have no idea how much it can happen.

That kind of corruption really doesn't happen very often in the UK. The slighest hint of such stuff is a big deal. We're not talking about Nigeria here.

But at the end of the day, a private enterprise with no access to tax money can only be so much inefficient and it's employees corrupt before it falls. A state run can be as ineffective and corrupt as it dares to be forever, because there is no end of tax money and especially loaned bond money.

That's not what we're talking about here. As I said myself true private railways work pretty well. That isn't an option in the UK however, building a railway these days is too much of an epic undertaking. I would totally encourage any company who wants to have a crack at it, if anyone is crazy enough.

[Jacob]

Honestly, when people have the attitude that politicians are crooks and public institutions are inefficient and corrupt they create the environment for it to happen. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you want your institutions and politicians to be corruption free and efficient, the very first thing you need to do is maintain the expectation that they will be; if your reaction is "that's to be expected" when you see inefficiency and corruption, you are contributing to enshrining it as the norm.

In short: for efficient national railways in the UK, Tamas must be deported.

[Valmy]

Your stuff is pretty far out there as well.

The US Supreme Court just ruled that not only is paying off politicians a form of free speech but it is how a Democracy is supposed to function.  So I am not sure why you think it is so far out there.

[Jacob]

I am sorry Tyr but that has to be the most naïve out-of-touch stuff I have read in a while.

Your stuff is pretty far out there as well.

You are projecting your Hungarian formed view of public institutions on to the UK as if it is some sort of universal truth about human nature. It's silly.

The UK has a culture where there are serious repercussions for a politician to fiddle with a few thousand pounds in expense claims. To approach that, and public policy, the same way you approach the kleptocracies of the former Eastern block is laughable.

[Jacob]

Your stuff is pretty far out there as well.

The US Supreme Court just ruled that not only is paying off politicians a form of free speech but it is how a Democracy is supposed to function.  So I am not sure why you think it is so far out there.

Yeah, the US seems pretty hell bent on undermining the foundations of good public policy these days which is sad. It did have a good run for a while there, though.

[Syt]

Your stuff is pretty far out there as well.

The US Supreme Court just ruled that not only is paying off politicians a form of free speech but it is how a Democracy is supposed to function.  So I am not sure why you think it is so far out there.

Yeah, the US seems pretty hell bent on undermining the foundations of good public policy these days which is sad. It did have a good run for a while there, though.

I read an interesting commentary that this might actually backfire and cement the image of the GOP as the party of the 1% that doesn't care about the little man.

[Jacob]

A state run can be as ineffective and corrupt as it dares to be forever, because there is no end of tax money and especially loaned bond money.

Only of you let it. If you have a properly functioning democracy, the level of inefficiency you speak of is a major scandal that ends political and professional careers; which means that there is a significant incentive to avoid just that.

[Tamas]

Honestly, when people have the attitude that politicians are crooks and public institutions are inefficient and corrupt they create the environment for it to happen. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you want your institutions and politicians to be corruption free and efficient, the very first thing you need to do is maintain the expectation that they will be; if your reaction is "that's to be expected" when you see inefficiency and corruption, you are contributing to enshrining it as the norm.

In short: for efficient national railways in the UK, Tamas must be deported.

What I give you is that I adore this country for the ease of everyday dealing compared to Hungary, achieved by the fact that not everybody is searching all the time on how he/she will be screwed by a deal or transaction, or how he/she can screw others. Makes everything much more relaxed. I do suspect that crooks must have a field day in this lovely environment. Then again, they have a field day in the Hungarian environment as well.