Nasa-funded study: industrial civilization headed for 'irreversible collapse'

Started by jimmy olsen, March 21, 2014, 09:08:53 AM

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grumbler

#15
March 21, 2014, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 21, 2014, 11:19:15 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 21, 2014, 11:01:40 AM
Cause they were so much better off under Stalin?  :wacko:
Were they any worse off?
How many millions starved to death under Stalin?  That many million people would say "yes."
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

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PDH

#16
March 21, 2014, 11:29:30 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 21, 2014, 11:23:14 AM

How many millions starved to death under Stalin?  That many million people would say "yes."

No.  Because they are dead  :rolleyes:
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

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Neil

#17
March 21, 2014, 11:31:52 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 21, 2014, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 21, 2014, 11:19:15 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 21, 2014, 11:01:40 AM
Cause they were so much better off under Stalin?  :wacko:
Were they any worse off?
How many millions starved to death under Stalin?  That many million people would say "yes."
Not Russians.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Razgovory

#18
March 21, 2014, 11:32:12 AM
Well Stalin's Soviet Union didn't collapse, Gorbachev's did.  The economic and political structure of the country fell apart.  Were they better off?  That would depend on who and when you ask.  If you ask a Russian in 1993, that answer would probably be "no".  You ask a Latvian today, the answer is probably "yes".
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Neil

#19
March 21, 2014, 11:32:36 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 21, 2014, 11:22:07 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 21, 2014, 11:19:15 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 21, 2014, 11:01:40 AM
Cause they were so much better off under Stalin?  :wacko:
Were they any worse off?
No Twitter. :o

Anyway, by that standard African society has "collapsed" as well.
When was African civilization not collapsed?
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Razgovory

#20
March 21, 2014, 11:33:52 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 21, 2014, 11:31:52 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 21, 2014, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 21, 2014, 11:19:15 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 21, 2014, 11:01:40 AM
Cause they were so much better off under Stalin?  :wacko:
Were they any worse off?
How many millions starved to death under Stalin?  That many million people would say "yes."
Not Russians.

Today your average Russian eats and lives better then he did 30 years ago.  He probably enjoys more freedom as well, (though that last bit is in flux at the moment).
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Eddie Teach

#21
March 21, 2014, 11:47:28 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 21, 2014, 11:32:36 AM
When was African civilization not collapsed?

See, collapse is a verb and requires that at some point there was something better in place to have collapsed.  :P

@Raz- the government of the Soviet Union fell. Russian society didn't, it's still plodding along.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Razgovory

#22
March 21, 2014, 11:57:17 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 21, 2014, 11:47:28 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 21, 2014, 11:32:36 AM
When was African civilization not collapsed?

See, collapse is a verb and requires that at some point there was something better in place to have collapsed.  :P

@Raz- the government of the Soviet Union fell. Russian society didn't, it's still plodding along.

Then what would you describe as a collapse?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Berkut

#23
March 21, 2014, 11:58:47 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 21, 2014, 10:05:36 AM
Quote from: PJL on March 21, 2014, 09:39:17 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 21, 2014, 09:36:59 AM
So,  "Irreversible" collapses are cyclic?  WTF?

Irreversible WITHIN the cycle. Obviously once it's done, a new cycle start.
So, not irreversible.


The collapse is irreversible, obviously other civilization eventually rise. But the one that collapsed is done for good.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Eddie Teach

#24
March 21, 2014, 12:00:43 PM
Permanent decline in standard of living, government services, technological know-how... like what happened in western Europe in the 5th century.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Razgovory

#25
March 21, 2014, 12:23:04 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 21, 2014, 12:00:43 PM
Permanent decline in standard of living, government services, technological know-how... like what happened in western Europe in the 5th century.

That wasn't a permanent decline, and wasn't even a decline in certain areas.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Eddie Teach

#26
March 21, 2014, 12:47:03 PM
The decline was permanent, it just was offset by natural progress over the following centuries. This differs from a period of war where there is a temporary decline but things pick up where they left off afterward.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Capetan Mihali

#27
March 21, 2014, 12:50:43 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 21, 2014, 12:47:03 PM
a period of war where there is a temporary decline but things pick up where they left off afterward.

You can never cross the same stream twice. :mellow:
"The internet's completely over. [...] The internet's like MTV. At one time MTV was hip and suddenly it became outdated. Anyway, all these computers and digital gadgets are no good. They just fill your head with numbers and that can't be good for you."
-- Prince, 2010. (R.I.P.)

Ideologue

#28
March 21, 2014, 12:59:38 PM
You can if it's really cold.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Eddie Teach

#29
March 21, 2014, 01:07:47 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 21, 2014, 12:50:43 PM
You can never cross the same stream twice. :mellow:

But you can cross different streams and kill powerful demons.  :homestar:
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?
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