Possible California ballot iniative to raise the minimum wage to $10, then $12

[Sheilbh]

Yes, that's what it is. He's trying to be out in front as an example on the issue.

Maybe. I think you count the outsourced cleaners, janitors, kitchen staff and all the rest in all the offices and canteens within the Federal government and you've probably got a fair few people who will benefit.

This was something that I think caught out Gordon Brown actually. He boasted that the government was going to use the living wage but it turned out it hadn't included the contracts with cleaning companies etc. Now I think central government does and many local councils do too.

[Admiral Yi]

I expect those folks are already making at least 10 Shelf.

[Sheilbh]

I expect those folks are already making at least 10 Shelf.

Why do you guess that?

Looking at BLS statistics $10 is roughly median wage for janitors and maintenance.

[derspiess]

'Cuz they're gov't contractors.

[MadImmortalMan]

I expect those folks are already making at least 10 Shelf.

Why do you guess that?

Because I have experience with exactly that, and they do in fact make more than ten clams most of the time.

[Sheilbh]

'Cuz they're gov't contractors.

So?

As I say here after the government announced they were giving their workers the living wage it was very quickly discovered that the firms they outsourced their catering staff and their cleaning to were the same large cleaning contractors used by everyone else. They were paying the same low wages as everyone else - except of course the companies who made paying the living wage a term of the contract - there was no difference working for the Treasury than, say, Barclays.

Why would it be different in the US?

[MadImmortalMan]

I'll tell you how it works.

You are company X and you want to bid on a contract to provide cleaning services for Federal Building Y. You go through the bidding process (which is arcane and I will not waste time with that right now), and you get the contract.

In the contract, it will have provisions for the amount of the contract, the minimum amount to pay each employee, what percentage of the contract must be spent on salaries, what percent on benefits, and often percentages for other things too, like cleaning products and equipment. It is through these contract provisions that Obama would have the ability to make the mandates. That's why he specified the going forward part.


Now, I've seen a lot of contracts over the years, and I have never ever seen one that mandated less than ten bucks an hour minimum. I have seen many with minimums much higher than that. I'm sure they probably exist somewhere. But the fact that I've never seen a single one, even for jobs like dishwashers and janitors tells me that it's probably damn rare.

[Sheilbh]

Okay, I take your point on your experience. But I suppose I still don't understand why the US government would be paying more than bargain rates (like every bit of the UK government) for cleaners, security guards, janitors, care workers and so on. Either your contractors or your government are strikingly generous.

but looking around online it looks like the average food service worker contract is $9.49 (which suggests there are many below that level too) and there's over 500 000 earning under $12 an hour. It seems reasonable that a proportion of them are under $10. So we could be talking tens to hundreds of thousands of people earning more and there may be a slight inflationary pressure on other low wages around $11-12 which would obviously increase the impact.

[derspiess]

or your government are strikingly generous.

They don't call it "Uncle Sugar" for nuthin'.

[Sheilbh]

or your government are strikingly generous.

They don't call it "Uncle Sugar" for nuthin'.

My guess is it's generous for different contractors.

[Admiral Yi]

But I suppose I still don't understand why the US government would be paying more than bargain rates

DC is an expensive market.
Spoils.
It's not their money.

(like every bit of the UK government)

I recall a discussion we had a year ago about the whomping wages British trash collectors get.

[Sheilbh]

DC is an expensive market.
Spoils.
It's not their money.

So's London - I bet you can get plenty of contracts for minimum wage cleaners in New York or wherever's most expensive in the US. If you're paying over $10 you are literally paying above the average.
The Federal government - and all the contracts from them are surely everywhere, not just DC. Every Federal office that gets cleaned or has security guards will be affected.
It is their money. If they're spending more on cleaning and office maintenance then they'll be spending less of their budget on themselves or whatever their job is.

I recall a discussion we had a year ago about the whomping wages British trash collectors get.

Yeah but that's not entirely accurate and a rather singular exception.

It's like us talking about unemployment in the US and me saying, I remember we once talked about North Dakota

[Admiral Yi]

The Federal government - and all the contracts from them are surely everywhere, not just DC.

The vast majority of federal activity is in the DC area.

It is their money. If they're spending more on cleaning and office maintenance then they'll be spending less of their budget on themselves or whatever their job is.

Who is your "they?"

[Sheilbh]

The vast majority of federal activity is in the DC area.

No doubt. But as I say every office, every national park, every SBA contract would be affected. It's far from just DC and that area.

Who is your "they?"

Within whichever agency you're talking about, whoever makes the decision on which contractors to use or how much of their budget to use for it.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm thinking it's not their call.  Hopefully Mimsy can comment.