Indian diplomat tells of anguish at leaving US without children

[Malthus]

The impression I've always gotten of diplomatic immunity is that it's "immune from prosecution, provided you don't actively do something to be prosecuted."  Always seemed to me more of a way to avoid the "ignorance of the (local) law is no excuse" hammer than a real legal shield to hide behind in the event of obvious malfeasance.

Insert obligatory IANAL caveat here so Beeb doesn't have a coronary.

The original purpose of diplomatic immunity had nothing to do with diplomats committing crimes or being ignorant of local laws - it was, as I understand it, a historical extension of the notion that the persons of diplomats are not to be messed with by their host countries, so as to preserve lines of communication when those countries are squabbling. In plenty of places, if country X is having a fight with country Y, persons from country Y would not be safe from legal fuckwittery in country X (see: India's threats against US officials in this current squabble). Diplomats are supposed to be exempt from that, as much in the interests of country X as of country Y (or the diplomats themselves) - if you mess with the diplomats, country X and country Y have effectively no way to talk to each other. It is usually in everyone's interests for that to happen.

As others have mentioned, the immunity belongs to the country and not to the diplomat. If a diplomat abuses it to commit crimes, the country who sent him or her can take it away - to "waive" it. If they don't, the host country can declare them persona non grata and turf them out.

[Ed Anger]

Hindusight is 20/20.

[garbon]

Hindusight is 20/20.

He keeps posting that.

[derspiess]

I wouldn't mind strip-searching her.

[Ed Anger]

I wouldn't mind strip-searching her.

[dps]

Did the US ask the Indian government to waive diplomatic immunity before making the arrest in this case?

The US asked India to waive diplomatic immunity after her arrest.  Persons with diplomatic immunity (which Khobragade didn't have - she just had the more limited "consular immunity" which immunized her against acts she carried out as a consul) can be arrested and charged, just not held or prosecuted.

Interesting.  I didn't realize that there are differing degrees of diplomatic immunity.

[Monoriu]

I remember the time when Mugebe's wife punched someone in HK.  She happened to be wearing a huge diamond ring at the time, so the punch caused quite a bit of damage.  She claimed diplomatic immunity, and we had to let her go.  For some reason his family seems to enjoy coming over. 

[Viking]

I remember the time when Mugebe's wife punched someone in HK.  She happened to be wearing a huge diamond ring at the time, so the punch caused quite a bit of damage.  She claimed diplomatic immunity, and we had to let her go.  For some reason his family seems to enjoy coming over.

I think that is Sovereign immunity, which applies to heads of state and their dependents.

[Razgovory]

I don't think India is going to become the 3rd economy by 2028.....





(Shut up, Timmay)

I'm kinda curious why everyone's economy is expected to increase so dramatically.  The US and Canada are both nearly doubling in GDP.

[DontSayBanana]

I think that is Sovereign immunity, which applies to heads of state and their dependents.

Ugh.  Yeah, now that one I do remember, and that's a bitch, since if the miscreant's home country doesn't want to prosecute, the only way to get to a sitting head of state is through the ICC.

[jimmy olsen]

I'm kinda curious why everyone's economy is expected to increase so dramatically.  The US and Canada are both nearly doubling in GDP.

Combination of economic growth, inflation and population growth can easily make that happen. Just 2.5% economic growth will increase the economy 41% over 14 years. That's the beauty of compound interest.

[alfred russel]

I'm kinda curious why everyone's economy is expected to increase so dramatically.  The US and Canada are both nearly doubling in GDP.

Raz, it is over 15 years. A complete doubling is a growth rate of 4.7%.

It also seems to be showing nominal amounts--depending on your forecast of worldwide inflation, the values can change a lot. Also, the values are expressed in British pounds--projected depreciation of the pound could significantly impact the numbers.

[jimmy olsen]

I don't get it, if she had diplomatic immunity when the act occured, then why are they able to refile the charges?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/judge-dismisses-charges-against-indian-diplomat-n51391

Judge Dismisses Charges Against Indian Diplomat

A federal judge has dismissed charges against an Indian deputy consul-general whose New York City arrest and strip-search set off a diplomatic spat that strained relations between the United States and India.

A ruling filed Wednesday concluded that Devyani Khobragade had diplomatic immunity — and therefore could not be prosecuted — when she was charged in December with submitting false documents to get a work visa for her Manhattan housekeeper and making false statements about that housekeeper's compensation.

Prosecutors had alleged that Khobragade paid the maid, an Indian national, around $3 per hour.

After being indicted, Khobragade followed a State Department order to leave the country. The Indian government, in turn, then asked Washington to remove a diplomat from the U.S. Embassy in New Delhi. The State Department complied — but tensions flared.

The ruling Wednesday by Judge Shira Scheindlin, however, doesn't close the door on a new indictment against Khobragade.

The prosecution is able to pursue a new indictment now or in the future since Khobragade no longer possesses diplomatic status or immunity, the ruling said.

Daniel Arshack, Khobragade's lawyer, said he and his client "are heartened that the court agreed with our legal analysis and rejected the prosecution's arguments by dismissing the case."

Although prosecutors are free to re-indict her, "the decision to do so might well be viewed as an aggressive and unnecessary act," according to Arshack.

"This current circumstance might well present the best opportunity for a lasting and final diplomatic resolution," he added.

But a statement from the U.S. Attorney's Office in Manhattan seemed to suggest that they would indeed seek a new indictment.

"As the court indicated in its decision, and as Devyani Khobragade has conceded, there is currently no bar to a new indictment against her for her alleged criminal conduct, and we intend to proceed accordingly," James Margolin, a spokesman for U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara in Manhattan, told the AP.

[Ed Anger]

I'd still like to give her a cavity search.

[grumbler]

I don't get it, if she had diplomatic immunity when the act occured, then why are they able to refile the charges?

Look at the article someone posted in this thread, which clearly stated that

The prosecution is able to pursue a new indictment now or in the future since Khobragade no longer possesses diplomatic status or immunity, the ruling said.

That's why.  It is meaningless unless she returns to the US.