Indian diplomat tells of anguish at leaving US without children

[DontSayBanana]

The impression I've always gotten of diplomatic immunity is that it's "immune from prosecution, provided you don't actively do something to be prosecuted."  Always seemed to me more of a way to avoid the "ignorance of the (local) law is no excuse" hammer than a real legal shield to hide behind in the event of obvious malfeasance.

Insert obligatory IANAL caveat here so Beeb doesn't have a coronary.

[Jacob]

Nope. AFAIK, the only recourse you technically have with diplomats is to kick them out and/or complain to their country of origin. Of course, most countries will instruct their representatives to behave appropriately and comply with the local rules - because you generally don't send representatives to cause trouble, and riling up the locals counts as causing trouble.

[Viking]

The impression I've always gotten of diplomatic immunity is that it's "immune from prosecution, provided you don't actively do something to be prosecuted."  Always seemed to me more of a way to avoid the "ignorance of the (local) law is no excuse" hammer than a real legal shield to hide behind in the event of obvious malfeasance.

Insert obligatory IANAL caveat here so Beeb doesn't have a coronary.

Diplomatic immunity can be waived by the foreign power should it wish. For the most part it is between civilized countries, which is why diplomats are for the most part law abiding persons. There is a reason Norwegian and Canadian diplomats at the UN pay the parking tickets and fines and Nigerian  and Indian ones do not.

[Monoriu]

Did the US ask the Indian government to waive diplomatic immunity before making the arrest in this case?

[Eddie Teach]

Diplomatic immunity can be waived by the foreign power should it wish. For the most part it is between civilized countries, which is why diplomats are for the most part law abiding persons. There is a reason Norwegian and Canadian diplomats at the UN pay the parking tickets and fines and Nigerian  and Indian ones do not.

Low level third world diplomats probably can't afford to pay them.

[Queequeg]

NEW DELHI: India took a conscious decision not to act against American diplomats with same-sex partners even as it withdrew several privileges extended to these diplomats, amid the stand-off over the arrest of its deputy consul-general Devyani Khobragade in New York on charges of visa fraud.

India did not want to be seen singling out US diplomats when their counterparts from a few other western countries also have same-sex partners, officials said. India, therefore, decided against encroaching upon the privacy of US officials and risking an adverse reaction from the international community, they added.

The issue came up when the external affairs ministry and other departments held brainstorming sessions to decide on withdrawal of special privileges extended to US diplomats. BJP leader Yashwant Sinha had advocated such a measure, referring to the apex court ruling.

Aren't these idiots supposed to be our fucking allies?

[Gups]

"What if my children choose to study and work in the US? What if I can never return to the US, which I cannot now. Does it mean we will never be able to live together as a family again?" she said.

What if you had chosen not to commit fraud?

As an aside, I have had the pleasure of knowing a number of Americans working in Vancouver who have enjoyed diplomatic immunity.  To a person they have been very respectful of local laws (more so than most of us).

I know that Canadian diplomats abroad - and I assume it's similar for American ones - have pretty strict instructions on that matter. You pay your parking tickets, but ideally you don't get them to begin with; pulling some sort of "I'm a diplomat, I have IMMUNITY!" over your personal inability to follow reasonable local laws is likely to negatively impact the retention of said diplomatic immunity.

Yeah, but most of the minor stuff wouldnt really matter.  I think it is a good revelation of character that they do worry about the little stuff even though it would probably not impact them at all.

Although Americans diplomats are the worst offenders for parking tickets in London.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23266149

Anyway, India has seriously jumped the shark with this. Seems to be one pathetic display after another with the Indian government. I never thought I'd start rooting for the BJP but its hard to imagine governance being any worse than it is now.

[garbon]

Did the US ask the Indian government to waive diplomatic immunity before making the arrest in this case?

As far as I know the US asserted that she only had consular immunity or something like that. India disagreed but then upgraded her status just the other week.

[grumbler]

Did the US ask the Indian government to waive diplomatic immunity before making the arrest in this case?

The US asked India to waive diplomatic immunity after her arrest.  Persons with diplomatic immunity (which Khobragade didn't have - she just had the more limited "consular immunity" which immunized her against acts she carried out as a consul) can be arrested and charged, just not held or prosecuted.

The Indians transferred her from their consulate to their UN delegation to upgrade her immunity and refused to waive it, and then the US declared her persona non grata and kicked her out of the country.  She could have chosen to take her kids with her, but didn't.  Now she wants us to weep because she made that choice.

[grumbler]

Although Americans diplomats are the worst offenders for parking tickets in London.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23266149

If you read your source, you will find that your statement isn't true: 

Nigerian diplomats owed the most in 2012 parking fines - £84,000 - while Saudi Arabia was second on the list with £24,005.

The US owes the most on congestion charges, which US policy states is part of host nation services rendered, and thus not chargeable.  I'd note that almost all (major, at least - data is lacking on smaller) diplomatic delegations agree with the US position.  That the US would lead in congestion fees makes sense, since it has the largest diplomatic delegation in London.

Anyway, India has seriously jumped the shark with this. Seems to be one pathetic display after another with the Indian government. I never thought I'd start rooting for the BJP but its hard to imagine governance being any worse than it is now.

I think you grossly over-estimate the political reasonableness and governing abilities of the BJP! 

I think you are a victim of the "grass is greener" syndrome.

[Eddie Teach]

BJP is the religious party, correct?

[jimmy olsen]

Yeah, Hindu Nationalist Party

[Gups]

I think you are a victim of the "grass is greener" syndrome.

More that the grass couldn't possibly be any worse. I'm afraid Congress is utterly unfit to rule. The economy is  in a terrible state, the polity is corrupt, its oen cock up after another in foreign affairs, and socially (caste, gender, homosexuality) India seems to be going backwards as a disconcerting pace.  Modi's role in the pograms remains highly suspect the say the least but he has a fantastic record in Gujarat. I know how close this is to saying at least Mussolini made the trains run on time!

[Siege]

Hindusight is 20/20.

[Siege]

I don't think India is going to become the 3rd economy by 2028.....





(Shut up, Timmay)