Chris Christie aides' emails suggest intentionally created traffic nightmare

[Eddie Teach]

I don't know what video you attempted to link to, but in any case, the claim wasn't about any particular video that may or may not have been cherrypicked.  The claim was about a pattern of behavior, where his team is always prepared to capture and broadcast him dressing someone down, and then in effect brag about it by posting in on YouTube.  That's literally building yourself up by tearing other people down, and if you take the fact in that previous sentence as a given and still don't see any bullying tendencies in that, then I'm not sure there is a way to get through, honestly.

I think there's room for other characterizations of this occurrence.

[Siege]

I really don't like this Chris Christie dude.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't know what video you attempted to link to, but in any case, the claim wasn't about any particular video that may or may not have been cherrypicked.  The claim was about a pattern of behavior, where his team is always prepared to capture and broadcast him dressing someone down, and then in effect brag about it by posting in on YouTube.  That's literally building yourself up by tearing other people down, and if you take the fact in that previous sentence as a given and still don't see any bullying tendencies in that, then I'm not sure there is a way to get through, honestly.

In fact the claim was about a pattern of behavior shown in a regular stream of videos.  I grabbed the first one I found.  You can view it by clicking the link.

[Kleves]

It seems highly unlikely to me.  What's the motivation for them to act alone?  They conspire to commit an act that they know can be dangerous for their careers, and yet even if they succeed, there is no benefit to them.  They lose if NYT catches them, they lose if honest Chris catches them and gets rid of them as dangerous loose cannons, and they don't really win much for themselves if all goes according to plan.

I think you're probably right about his aide's lack of motivation. I think it makes even less sense for Christie to order this. His motivation would essentially seem to be that he's an out-of-control bully that could not help himself.

[sbr]

It seems highly unlikely to me.  What's the motivation for them to act alone?  They conspire to commit an act that they know can be dangerous for their careers, and yet even if they succeed, there is no benefit to them.  They lose if NYT catches them, they lose if honest Chris catches them and gets rid of them as dangerous loose cannons, and they don't really win much for themselves if all goes according to plan.

I think you're probably right about his aide's lack of motivation. I think it makes even less sense for Christie to order this. His motivation would essentially seem to be that he's an out-of-control bully that could not help himself.

What if he happens to be an out-of-control bully who could not help himself?

[DGuller]

I don't know what video you attempted to link to, but in any case, the claim wasn't about any particular video that may or may not have been cherrypicked.  The claim was about a pattern of behavior, where his team is always prepared to capture and broadcast him dressing someone down, and then in effect brag about it by posting in on YouTube.  That's literally building yourself up by tearing other people down, and if you take the fact in that previous sentence as a given and still don't see any bullying tendencies in that, then I'm not sure there is a way to get through, honestly.

In fact the claim was about a pattern of behavior shown in a regular stream of videos.  I grabbed the first one I found.  You can view it by clicking the link.

Hard to determine a pattern from one video.

[Admiral Yi]

Hard to determine a pattern from one video.

That's the kind of response one throws out there when one has nothing better to say.

One of two things is true: either the claim that he's a bully is received wisdom, and all right-thinking people just *know* he's a bully, or the fact that he's a bully is derived from observation of his actual behavior.  I've asked the group to link to any videos they're aware of that contain an example of his bullying.  No takers.  I've linked to a video.  No attempt to defend that as an example of bullying.  I wouldn't call it bullying.

[Kleves]

What if he happens to be an out-of-control bully who could not help himself?

Not impossible, but wouldn't there be more evidence of this? I mean this is a lot different than shouting down hecklers. Is there anything else this Nixonian on Christie's resume?

[DGuller]

It seems highly unlikely to me.  What's the motivation for them to act alone?  They conspire to commit an act that they know can be dangerous for their careers, and yet even if they succeed, there is no benefit to them.  They lose if NYT catches them, they lose if honest Chris catches them and gets rid of them as dangerous loose cannons, and they don't really win much for themselves if all goes according to plan.

I think you're probably right about his aide's lack of motivation. I think it makes even less sense for Christie to order this. His motivation would essentially seem to be that he's an out-of-control bully that could not help himself.

I don't think your conclusion is that unlikely.  History is full of examples of bullies that eventually become too brazen and fuck up somewhere.

[DGuller]

Hard to determine a pattern from one video.

That's the kind of response one throws out there when one has nothing better to say.

One of two things is true: either the claim that he's a bully is received wisdom, and all right-thinking people just *know* he's a bully, or the fact that he's a bully is derived from observation of his actual behavior.  I've asked the group to link to any videos they're aware of that contain an example of his bullying.  No takers.  I've linked to a video.  No attempt to defend that as an example of bullying.  I wouldn't call it bullying.

That's the kind of response one gives when the point is nearly impossible to prove by links even when true.  Yes, I can spend the night looking through all the Christie videos, and making a list of the ones where he tears into someone with no provocation, and I know those exist because I heard them at the time they happened, but that's too much work for the benefit.

[DGuller]

But here is the next best thing:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/01/08/chris-christies-problem-is-that-hes-really-truly-a-bully/?tid=pm_pop.

[Sheilbh]

I think you're probably right about his aide's lack of motivation. I think it makes even less sense for Christie to order this. His motivation would essentially seem to be that he's an out-of-control bully that could not help himself.

It's not as if there's a shortage of needy alpha males within politics - at least Christie can safely be said to not be part of Paul Ryan's Crossfit group in Congress

But I think there is a bullying streak to him and I think he relishes confrontation. That personality is part of the appeal, but it's also a potential weakness if he ends up fighting the wrong person or if they get in the way.

Personality explains why we do things that  from an outside perspective don't seem to have a good reason. People aren't rational but rationalising. There are all sorts of actions, big and small, by politicians that don't make sense objectively. I'd say it's normally because of their personality/character/self-perception.

[Sheilbh]

I've asked the group to link to any videos they're aware of that contain an example of his bullying.  No takers.  I've linked to a video.  No attempt to defend that as an example of bullying.  I wouldn't call it bullying.

Okay. Take the word bullying out of it. His love of a good fight and sort of brashness is what I've meant by him seeming from the outside (and from someone whose only reference is pop culture) quite New Jersey in style. It only travels well if you're okay with both the approach and the targets.

Sandy changed my view on him, but I always thought this style might not work in other contexts like a national election and some people may find him overbearing, rude, discourteous, or bullying.

[Kleves]

But here is the next best thing:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/01/08/chris-christies-problem-is-that-hes-really-truly-a-bully/?tid=pm_pop.

Those all seem pretty tame* and/or not examples of bullying at all. Other than interactions with hecklers, the article pretty much has four examples of "bullying": "a former governor who was stripped of police security at public events; a Rutgers professor who lost state financing for cherished programs; a state senator whose candidate for a judgeship suddenly stalled; another senator who was disinvited from an event with the governor in his own district." The first two may or may not be scandals. The latter two are laughable. You could probably find similar incidents from every governor in the country. That such incidents are recounted as some of the most egregious examples of Christie's "bullying" does nothing to inspire confidence that there is any fire behind all this smoke.


*Though the article does its best to sex things up. The WaPo article says that "a New Jersey assemblyman... got a nasty note from Christie after making some relatively innocuous radio comments." The original NYT story describes the note as "a handwritten note from Mr. Christie, telling him that he had heard the comments, and that he didn't like them." That sounds pretty far from "nasty." Also funny is how the writer describes Christie telling a heckler to "keep walking" as "not typical behavior for an adult. It's definitely not typical behavior for a national politician. But it's typical behavior for a bully. In fact, it's not even very creative bullying. Anyone who's ever been a boy in an American middle school has heard "keep walking!"" Personally, I have never thought of "keep walking" as a bully's favorite insult, but YMMV.

[Neil]

It's possible that they're just attacking him to try and get rid of an electable Republican.  After all, it's not like the Republicans have a lot of prominent non-lunatics.