America's Welfare State fails

[Josquius]

Wait, the US has a welfare state? 

Instead of attempting to make poverty more comfortable, we should focus on creating wider prosperity.

No way. As a leftist I must utterly oppose such things. We in no way want people to be richer.

We should end those government policies, such as high taxes and regulatory excess, that inhibit growth and job creation.

This is about the US right? You barely have taxes there....

[Capetan Mihali]

Wait, the US has a welfare state? 

Sure we do.  Just cobbled together from various inefficient programs run at the federal and state (and joint) levels.  It covers all the major bases of a welfare state -- disability, old age, subsidized healthcare, food benefits, unemployment insurance, benefits for young families, etc.

[Valmy]

Sure we do.  Just cobbled together from various inefficient programs run at the federal and state (and joint) levels.  It covers all the major bases of a welfare state -- disability, old age, subsidized healthcare, food benefits, unemployment insurance, benefits for young families, etc.

The difference between US heartless capitalism and European fluffy Socialism is a few dollars on benefit checks.

[Admiral Yi]

I would argue that the biggest difference between the two is America's at-will labor market.

[Valmy]

This is about the US right? You barely have taxes there....

Oh yes we do.  We will even tax you if you move abroad and work and live there.  That military that keeps all you Euros safe is costly.

[Valmy]

I would argue that the biggest difference between the two is America's at-will labor market.

That is probably true.

[garbon]

We will even tax you if you move abroad and work and live there. 

We always want a piece of the pie.

[The Brain]

We know from the Swedish experiment that Socialist policies primarily hurt poor people.

[DontSayBanana]

I'm sick of people whining that taxes and regs "inhibit growth and job creation."

Lowering taxes might improve profitability, but in a service economy, everyone needs to sell something, and everything needs to have someone to buy it.  Lowering taxes does nothing to create customers to buy products that have hit maximum market saturation at current income levels.

You want more jobs?  You reward development, not up the amount of money the board sticks in their pockets, since they're just going to take the upped profits for themselves.  Let's ask our resident business owners, esp. Jake or Ed:

Your profit grows right along with GDP for the past year: 4%.  Do you:
A) Hire new employees to keep up with increased demand for your product?
B) Give your employees a raise for being team players and keeping your company on track?
C) Pay yourself extra?  After all, it's your investment, it should yield returns for you.
D) Deposit the overage and build up cash reserves?  After all, the market's been anything but stable.

[Zanza]

Sure they do.  Raising the minimum wage causes unemployment and unemployment insurance disincentivizes job searching.

Why is the minimum wage considered part of the welfare state? It's not a government handout, just a work regulation. Two of the best-known welfare states, Sweden and Germany, do not have a state-mandated minimum wage.

While it may be true that unemployment insurance is a disincentive for job searching, the conclusion that it creates poverty does not necessary follow. It could just as well be that without unemployment insurance you would just have more destitute people that cannot find employment at all. In recent years the rate of employment in the US has dropped drastically. Searching and finding a job is not the same...

[Admiral Yi]

I misunderstood your original post Zanza.

[Iormlund]

... unemployment insurance disincentivizes job searching.

Doesn't seem that much of a disincentive in practice. Back in the good old days barely 3% of the local workforce was out of a job.

[Admiral Yi]

Doesn't seem that much of a disincentive in practice. Back in the good old days barely 3% of the local workforce was out of a job.

What periods are you comparing to, and have you controlled for all relevant independent variables?

[Iormlund]

Bubble days. When pretty much everyone who wanted a job got one. As it turns out, few didn't want one, even if they were eligible for benefits (which were better back then as well).

[DGuller]

Except neither article actually shows anywhere that it isn't helping the poor.

Sure they do.  Raising the minimum wage causes unemployment and unemployment insurance disincentivizes job searching.

Assuming that is true, that still doesn't even show that these programs hurt the poor.