EU3 Modification Question

[alfred russel]

I don't have the game, but am considering it. The problem with Paradox games is they take a huge time investment to learn what you are doing and then they are obscenely easy once you know the rules.

I don't want to get the game if I can't be challenged in a long term single player game. If I start in 1492 as Milan and am a major European power by 1600, or if I start as England and have conquered much of western europe with minimal effort--that is not what I'm interested in.

I was thinking of modifying the game along the lines of:
--for every two provinces you own that are not a national core province, you receive a minus one maximum stability
--Exempt from the above rule: the new world, Africa, and Australia
--Modifying the rule above: if a nonnational core province is of the same culture, the penalty is reduced 50%
--I can't get new noncore provinces
--All these rules only apply to me (lord knows paradox AI has enough challenges)

Are these types of modifications possible? And how much work would they require if they are (not willing to put in more than a few hours)?

[Barrister]

I don't have the game, but am considering it. The problem with Paradox games is they take a huge time investment to learn what you are doing and then they are obscenely easy once you know the rules.

I don't want to get the game if I can't be challenged in a long term single player game. If I start in 1492 as Milan and am a major European power by 1600, or if I start as England and have conquered much of western europe with minimal effort--that is not what I'm interested in.

I was thinking of modifying the game along the lines of:
--for every two provinces you own that are not a national core province, you receive a minus one maximum stability
--Exempt from the above rule: the new world, Africa, and Australia
--Modifying the rule above: if a nonnational core province is of the same culture, the penalty is reduced 50%
--I can't get new noncore provinces
--All these rules only apply to me (lord knows paradox AI has enough challenges)

Are these types of modifications possible? And how much work would they require if they are (not willing to put in more than a few hours)?

A few different thoughts (remembering I only purchased eu3 a couple of weeks ago):

-yes, I think long term EU3 has the same problem as the predecessors - if you take a major country you will not face substantial problems over the long run.  I think you need to either set house rules on yourself or play as a minor in the long run.

-that being said that's only once you really understand the game and the systems.  You'll certainly have plenty of fun trying to figure them out.  The game is similar enough to EU2 you should get the basic hang of it pretty soon, but different enough to make it a new game.

-I don't understand what you mean by "modifying the game".  There's no ability to modify the basic dynamics of the game as you suggest.  You can edit save files, but thats about it.  Or you can play with house rules, but that's basically just restrictions you place on yourself and aren't modifying anything.

-You should probably play the game before thinking of how you want to add house rules.  For example the "core province" dynamic is changed quite a bit from EU2 - you can gain a core on any province if you hold it for 50 years.  Or, you can lose a core province 50 years after losing the province.

-Fundamentally I recommend simply not playing as a warmonger.  As Milan I think you could have a lot of fun trying to unify Italy and become a major European power - but you don't need to conquer France and Germany.  Or as England maybe decide to conquer Great Britain, or to keep your French holdings, but no need to then try and conquer Spain.

[alfred russel]

I don't have the game, but am considering it. The problem with Paradox games is they take a huge time investment to learn what you are doing and then they are obscenely easy once you know the rules.

I don't want to get the game if I can't be challenged in a long term single player game. If I start in 1492 as Milan and am a major European power by 1600, or if I start as England and have conquered much of western europe with minimal effort--that is not what I'm interested in.

I was thinking of modifying the game along the lines of:
--for every two provinces you own that are not a national core province, you receive a minus one maximum stability
--Exempt from the above rule: the new world, Africa, and Australia
--Modifying the rule above: if a nonnational core province is of the same culture, the penalty is reduced 50%
--I can't get new noncore provinces
--All these rules only apply to me (lord knows paradox AI has enough challenges)

Are these types of modifications possible? And how much work would they require if they are (not willing to put in more than a few hours)?

A few different thoughts (remembering I only purchased eu3 a couple of weeks ago):

-yes, I think long term EU3 has the same problem as the predecessors - if you take a major country you will not face substantial problems over the long run.  I think you need to either set house rules on yourself or play as a minor in the long run.

-that being said that's only once you really understand the game and the systems.  You'll certainly have plenty of fun trying to figure them out.  The game is similar enough to EU2 you should get the basic hang of it pretty soon, but different enough to make it a new game.

-I don't understand what you mean by "modifying the game".  There's no ability to modify the basic dynamics of the game as you suggest.  You can edit save files, but thats about it.  Or you can play with house rules, but that's basically just restrictions you place on yourself and aren't modifying anything.

-You should probably play the game before thinking of how you want to add house rules.  For example the "core province" dynamic is changed quite a bit from EU2 - you can gain a core on any province if you hold it for 50 years.  Or, you can lose a core province 50 years after losing the province.

-Fundamentally I recommend simply not playing as a warmonger.  As Milan I think you could have a lot of fun trying to unify Italy and become a major European power - but you don't need to conquer France and Germany.  Or as England maybe decide to conquer Great Britain, or to keep your French holdings, but no need to then try and conquer Spain.

Isn't the Magnus Mundi a user made mod? It seems to have some fairly drastic changes. Even if there are only back end ways of modifying the game, such as giving my country a -1 stability hit every time I get a certain number of non core provinces and achieve 3 stability, I think it would be worthwhile.

Here is my problem with your house rules suggestion--at some point I will become Italy, for example, and end up at war with France (or another major country). I will demolish them, and they will offer me half their country. I can certainly refuse, but it really kind of defeats the purpose.

I guess my major problem with the paradox games is that they are so close to a game I would want, but at least for me they miss the point. Take Western Europe during the EU2 time period--Spain, France, the UK--they didn't exist at the start (at least as we know them), and came into existence primarily through inheritances. Germany and Italy never formed. Becoming a major country, or falling from the ranks of major countries, never took place through a war. But the games play like Romance of the Three Kingdoms on a different map and in realtime.

[Barrister]

Isn't the Magnus Mundi a user made mod? It seems to have some fairly drastic changes. Even if there are only back end ways of modifying the game, such as giving my country a -1 stability hit every time I get a certain number of non core provinces and achieve 3 stability, I think it would be worthwhile.

Here is my problem with your house rules suggestion--at some point I will become Italy, for example, and end up at war with France (or another major country). I will demolish them, and they will offer me half their country. I can certainly refuse, but it really kind of defeats the purpose.

I guess my major problem with the paradox games is that they are so close to a game I would want, but at least for me they miss the point. Take Western Europe during the EU2 time period--Spain, France, the UK--they didn't exist at the start (at least as we know them), and came into existence primarily through inheritances. Germany and Italy never formed. Becoming a major country, or falling from the ranks of major countries, never took place through a war. But the games play like Romance of the Three Kingdoms on a different map and in realtime.

I haven't played with MM mod, but based on what I do understand about it there are certain things that can be edited - various events, stats of various provinces, various graphics mods, etc.  But what you can't change are some basic mechanics. 

BUt I think you're being too hard on a game you've never played.  First of all in EU3 as I understand it one nation inheriting another can happen much more easily - which means Spain and Great Britain forming is much more possible in a historic manner.

And on the other hand the idea of a nation of Italy or Germany was commonly heard in the EU time period - much of Machiavelli talks about that idea.  So why shouldn't it be a theoretical possibility.

And - if you get into a major war with France and they offer you half the country - well take it, then vassalize all the areas you don't want.  Problem solved.  Or vassalize all of France.

[alfred russel]

And on the other hand the idea of a nation of Italy or Germany was commonly heard in the EU time period - much of Machiavelli talks about that idea.  So why shouldn't it be a theoretical possibility.

Italy, yes. Germany? I don't know. But neither happened. In fact there were no major countries formed via warfare in western europe during the entire period. How often do you think that happens in your average EU game?

Maybe it isn't fair to judge the game when I haven't played it, but I just have some fustration with the paradox games I've played in that they end up being far too tilted toward easy military conquests.

As for my suggested mod, it doesn't require changes to the basic game mechanics. Just create an event that gives -1 stability every time you have 3 stability and a certain number of noncore provinces. The real question is if you can set up the number of noncore provinces as an event trigger (as well as ignoring provinces in certain regions of the globe).

[Barrister]

Italy, yes. Germany? I don't know. But neither happened. In fact there were no major countries formed via warfare in western europe during the entire period. How often do you think that happens in your average EU game?

France?  Russia?

[Syt]

I think that considering Russia as "Western Europe" is a bit of a stretch there, Beeb.

[Barrister]

I think that considering Russia as "Western Europe" is a bit of a stretch there, Beeb.

Well I considered his restriction to only Western Europe to be a cop out since most of the bext examples of nations forming by conquest happened in the East.  :p

[crazy canuck]

One of the things that modders like about EU3 is that most of what used to be hard coded in EU2 can now be modified.  However, you probably wont know for sure whether you can make all the mods you wish until you buy the game, pop the hood and get your hands in there.

[Tamas]

There is that mod, SRI 3.3 or something similar which I use. It has better AI, and everything which is good about Magna Mundi, leaving out all that is wrong in it.
I highly recommend to use it instead of MM.

[alfred russel]

I think that considering Russia as "Western Europe" is a bit of a stretch there, Beeb.

Well I considered his restriction to only Western Europe to be a cop out since most of the bext examples of nations forming by conquest happened in the East.  :p

Exactly.

There was a lot going on in Western Europe during the time period--massive internal changes, colonization, revolts, wars of religion. What there wasn't was an English king saying, "LOL Barcelona is a nice province, I think I'll declare war on Spain and take it." That wasn't in the realm of the plausible.

[alfred russel]

One of the things that modders like about EU3 is that most of what used to be hard coded in EU2 can now be modified.  However, you probably wont know for sure whether you can make all the mods you wish until you buy the game, pop the hood and get your hands in there.

I'm not interested in making many changes. Just add 3 or 4 events.

[crazy canuck]

One of the things that modders like about EU3 is that most of what used to be hard coded in EU2 can now be modified.  However, you probably wont know for sure whether you can make all the mods you wish until you buy the game, pop the hood and get your hands in there.

I'm not interested in making many changes. Just add 3 or 4 events.

What you are talking about requires some pretty significant tinkering with the game mechanics.

[Barrister]

I think that considering Russia as "Western Europe" is a bit of a stretch there, Beeb.

Well I considered his restriction to only Western Europe to be a cop out since most of the bext examples of nations forming by conquest happened in the East.  :p

Exactly.

There was a lot going on in Western Europe during the time period--massive internal changes, colonization, revolts, wars of religion. What there wasn't was an English king saying, "LOL Barcelona is a nice province, I think I'll declare war on Spain and take it." That wasn't in the realm of the plausible.

Umm, I disagree.  First you're ignoring the 100 years war which included exactly that sort of thing.  The expansion of Prussia which involved exactly that sort of thing.  Various wars between the Italian city-states which involved just that sort of thing.  The Spanish Reconquista.  The Napoleonic Wars.  And that's just off the top of my head.

Western Europe did in fact have a handful of well-established borders - the Pyrenees for example between France and Spain.  But that certainly there was plenty of wars of conquest.

[Barrister]

Anyways AR I think you're asking the wrong question.

You're asking "can I make a handful of very specific mods to the game", and are disappointed to learn the answer is probably no.

Instead you should ask "can I make significant mods to the game to make it more what I like", and I think the answer is probably yes.  You can make all kinds of mods and changes to the game that would probably make conquest tougher.  It's just some of the specific event triggers you suggest I don't think are allowed.