Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Syt]

http://rt.com/news/154588-russia-drill-ukraine-operation/

Russia 'forced' to launch military drills at border in response to Ukraine op - Moscow

Russia has begun extensive military exercises in Ukrainian border area following the escalation of violence in eastern Ukraine.

"The order to use force against civilians has already been given, and if this military machine is not stopped, the amount of casualties will only grow," Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said during an official meeting in Moscow.

"War games by NATO in Poland and the Baltic states are not helping the normalization of the situation. We are forced to react to the situation."

Shoigu said that the drills involve march and deployment exercises by forces in the southern and western military districts, and separate Air Force maneuvers.

Shoigu said that 11,000 Ukrainian soldiers, 160 tanks, 230 armored carriers and at least 150 artillery pieces are involved in the operation against anti-Kiev activists.

"National guard units and Right Sector extremists are fighting against the peaceful population, as well as a volunteer Donbass 'anti-terrorist' unit. Also security and internal forces transferred to Lugansk and Donetsk from other areas of the country are suppressing dissent," the minister said.

He added that Ukrainian sabotage units have been deployed near the Russian border.

In contrast, Shoigu said that the pro-Russian self-defense units number about 2,000 and have about 100 guns between them, which have mostly been taken from local police stations.

[derspiess]

Wow, that Ukrainian military machine is a fearful beast

[Syt]

Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/24/ukraine-government-troops-move-against-pro-russian-separatists-live-updates

The Russian mobilization: Many photographs and video (here and here, via The Interpreter live blog) are emerging of moving tanks, armoured personnel carriers and other materiel in what is said to be the area of Novoshakhtinsk, just on the Russia side of the eastern Ukraine border. The Guardian has not independently confirmed the veracity of the images, which come from multiple sources and were uploaded at around the same time. The Russian military buildup on the border has been going on for weeks.

[mongers]

Much of what passes as 'information' in this conflict seem to me to be nearer to propaganda. 

Obviously most of what comes out of Putin's Russia and RT is rubbish or pure propaganda.

But the Ukraine interim govt. is putting out some hilariously inept/wrong or just plain propaganda too. Like these two descriptions about the situation on the ground in East Ukraine:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27138300

At the scene
Steve Rosenberg
BBC News, Sloviansk

We drove into Sloviansk expecting to see signs of a major confrontation between Ukrainian security forces and heavily armed pro-Russian militiamen. Earlier, Ukraine's interior ministry reported that a number of "terrorists" had been killed in a gun battle and three roadblocks cleared.

We saw people strolling through the town centre, children walking down the street, and traffic on the roads. The makeshift checkpoints, set up by the militiamen remained.

We've also been to Artemivsk. The interior ministry said a military base there had been attacked by up to 70 armed separatists and that they had been repelled. Apart from a broken window and a damaged door, there was little sign of a battle. Kiev says its military operations against pro-Russia militants continue. But what we saw suggests the need for caution about claims and counterclaims in this conflict.

At the scene
Natalia Antelava
BBC News, Mariupol

On Thursday morning, Ukraine's Interior Minister Arsen Avakov updated his Facebook status with news that government troops had freed the administrative building in Mariupol. But when we got there the picture was very different.

The building is still surrounded by barricades made of barbed wire and tyres, and dozens of angry protesters are still in control of the entrance. Protesters said that soldiers and civilians stormed the building overnight. A fight broke out and police said five people were hurt.

Among the civilians, they said, was the mayor. His office confirmed he went into the building to "assess the situation", but would not give further details. Police here do not seem to know, or are not willing to disclose, much either. They told me they were treating what happened overnight as a "criminal incident" rather than an anti-terrorist operation - another sign that Kiev is struggling to control local law-enforcement.

And I think the US to some extent has being getting in on the act, like that story of apparently separatists taking over the local opera house rather than the main admin/local council, because obviously they weren't from there. I've not seen anything to back up that claim.

After all with so much, bad or even dire propaganda about it gives you plenty of opportunity to get you own shit out and have it smelling of roses in comparison to the Russian stuff.

[derspiess]

We get it, you dislike our Ukrainian allies.

[DGuller]

We get it, uou dislike our Ukrainian allies.

Ugh, let's pretend they're not with us, shall we?

[derspiess]

We get it, uou dislike our Ukrainian allies.

Ugh, let's pretend they're not with us, shall we?

I like 'em.  Their hearts are at least in the right place.  They just need to jettison some Russian sympathizers.

[Razgovory]

I don't think they are actually our allies.  Truth be told our Ukrainian aren't that much different the Putin's gang.  We root for them because they are against the Russians.

[derspiess]

We root for them because they are against the Russians.

Speak for yourself.  I have sympathy for them because they've been repeatedly fucked over throughout history and have never had a fair shot at forming their own truly independent state.  Inside each Ukrainian is a Westerner trying to get out.  The anti-Russian thing doesn't hurt, though.

[Sheilbh]

Russia and NATO have been dancing this dance for ages. The article itself says it's a common incident.

Yeah. My understanding is it happens at least a few times a year and we get it less than the Scandis. It's a common incident that's given extra meaning because of what's happening in Ukraine. Nothing new.

[Razgovory]

We root for them because they are against the Russians.

Speak for yourself.  I have sympathy for them because they've been repeatedly fucked over throughout history and have never had a fair shot at forming their own truly independent state.  Inside each Ukrainian is a Westerner trying to get out.  The anti-Russian thing doesn't hurt, though.

Let's not fool ourselves here.

[Viking]

Russia and NATO have been dancing this dance for ages. The article itself says it's a common incident.

Yeah. My understanding is it happens at least a few times a year and we get it less than the Scandis. It's a common incident that's given extra meaning because of what's happening in Ukraine. Nothing new.

I happens so often up here it doesn't even get mentioned in the news. The special cases, like when the Admiral Kuznetzov decided to hold a large aircraft excercize right in the middle of an offshore oil and gas field with no warning grounding the platform's helicopters leaving the staff stranded for the duration.

However, the frequency of the the Bear Patrols does correlate to russian bluster and military activity. The frequency of these patrols has been increasing for years now.

To the best of my knowledge similar patrols by NATO aircraft around Kola are rare, ships like the Marjata and satellites can presumably usually do the job better. Right now there are no US military aircraft based at Keflavik or in Norway, so if they are spying on Kola they are doing it from Britain or Canada or the US itself.

[Eddie Teach]

Speak for yourself.  I have sympathy for them because they've been repeatedly fucked over throughout history and have never had a fair shot at forming their own truly independent state.  Inside each Ukrainian is a Westerner trying to get out.  The anti-Russian thing doesn't hurt, though.

They're Russians that resent the fact Moscow has more power & influence than Kiev.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm with Speesh.  I'll condemn Ukraine after they do something dumbass, not before.

[Barrister]

My sympathies are 100% behind the brave people of Ukraine.

Besides, how can you not have sympathy for a people who launch a series of protests throughout the entire Ukrainian winter, all because they want their nation to be associated with the West and the EU?