Ukraine's European Revolution?

[derspiess]

Costa Rica abolished it's military due to the fact that it was an internal threat.  They've since become the most stable state in Central America.

The influx of foreign hippies also helps.

[Razgovory]

 

[Razgovory]

Ukrainian-Russian Tensions Dividing U.S. Citizens Along Ignorant, Apathetic Lines
NEWS • Politics • World • Politicians • ISSUE 50•09 • Mar 3, 2014

WASHINGTON—According to a poll released Monday by the Pew Research Center, the escalating conflict between Russia and Ukraine has left Americans sharply and bitterly divided along ignorant and apathetic lines, with the nation's citizenry evenly split between grossly misinformed and wholly indifferent factions.

"The very real threat of a Russia-Ukraine war has completely polarized the general public, pitting two deeply entrenched blocs against one another: those who have absolutely no clue what they're talking about and those who couldn't care less," said Pew spokesman Andrew Collins, noting that the ouster of Ukraine's president Viktor Yanukovych and Russia's subsequent occupation of Crimea has inflamed tensions between the two sides to a level unseen since the height of the war in Syria. "This is not a distinctly regional or socioeconomic split, either. We're seeing local workplaces, friends, even online fora ripped in two by their desire to either ignore the whole thing completely or spout an inane, half-witted opinion on it like they're some geopolitical expert."

"And as the situation develops and Western powers become more involved, these divisions will only appear more stark," he added. "In the coming weeks, we can expect to hear a growing cacophony of uninformed and harebrained calls for action or restraint from one side, and absolutely nothing at all from the other."

Results of the poll found that the two sides are at odds on nearly every facet of the crisis, from last week's protests in Kiev, to Ukraine's freeing of former president Yulia Tymoshenko, to Russian president Vladimir Putin's invasion of the Crimean Peninsula in defiance of Western warnings, with neither group seeing eye-to-eye on any of the developments' significance—or whether they even have any significance to begin with.

Additionally, nearly half the U.S. public has put forth numerous breathtakingly naive potential solutions to the crisis—which range from economic sanctions on Russia, to economic sanctions on Ukraine, to deploying the U.S. military to the "middle of Asia" to solve the standoff—while an equal number of Americans firmly and repeatedly stated their commitment to not giving a shit one way or the other.

Furthermore, sources are reporting that the deep ideological rift over the Russia-Ukraine conflict is visible in nearly every community and place of work across the country, with disinterested and misinformed Americans confirming they have repeatedly come into conflict in recent days.

"It's incredibly frustrating to try to talk some sense into someone who doesn't realize that Crimea's very freedom as an independent nation is at stake," said completely ignorant Languishite "Ideologue," who admitted that he has clashed constantly in the past week over Ukraine with his staunchly apathetic fellow forumite "grumbler." "Talking to him is like talking to a brick wall. It's almost as if he doesn't even want to hear how Putin was kicked out of Ukraine by his own people and then retaliated by invading Crimea. Frankly, no matter how much I tell him that Obama's this close to breaking his silence and issuing a warning to Russia, it's just not getting through to him."

"The bottom line is that Ide's views aren't going to affect my opinion," said grumbler of his forum-mate's constant uneducated opinions about John Kerry's upcoming trip to Kiev and his bizarre personal assertion that the invasion happened "suspiciously close to the Olympics." "My mind's made up, and I completely stand by my lack of interest in this issue. So Ide should just keep his mouth shut and let this situation—whatever it is—play out."

According to reports, most Americans see little chance of the warring camps coming to any sort of reconciliation any time soon, as supporters on both sides appeared committed in their respective efforts to either gravely misconstrue the complicated crisis in Ukraine or remain checked out of the issue entirely. Still, some experts are holding out hope that the two groups may be able to someday see eye-to-eye on the thorny issue of Ukrainian sovereignty and Russian aggression.

"As startling as these two factions' differences may seem at first, there's still opportunity for the two sides to come together and reach a compromise on the Ukraine conflict," said Collins. "When it comes to the situation in Crimea, there's a middle ground between ignorance and apathy on this issue that I think all Americans could happily live with."

Poor bait.

[derspiess]

Helps mellow out the scene, man.

[PJL]

Putin essentially got away with Georgia without paying much of a price. I'm pretty sure he thought much the same would happen over Ukraine, and things are not going as he expected.

The European response to Putin is a joke, 5 days after he launches his Crimean "peacekeeping" operation, the emergency meeting is finally taking place. Although to be fair to them, Putin did annex the place on a weekend.

Yes and I expect them to decide to meet again in two weeks to decide if they want to form a committee to discuss the possibility of creating a team which would write a sternly worded letter to Russia, in which they would assure Putin there would be no military action or meaningful sanctions.

The West's response to the Crimean Crisis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WgUktfdDy4

[derspiess]

Obama is at least doing something.  It may not be as strong a response as an armchair strategist like me would like, but it is encouraging for me to see the Administration taking the situation seriously and at least taking some action.  I'm not a big fan of Obama, nor Lurch, nor Samantha Power, but I don't really have any criticism with how they've handled things thus far.  Ditto for Venezuela, though that is kind of an easier one to navigate.

[Admiral Yi]

You're good with the way Barry is handling Venezuela?  I haven't heard a peep from him about the country.

[Viking]

You're good with the way Barry is handling Venezuela?  I haven't heard a peep from him about the country.

He's letting Maduro shoot himself in the foot, knee, arms, head, chest and ass repeatedly while staying out. What was he gonna do? Something? or possibly Anything? Which would let Maduro claim IMPERIALISM!!!!!1111oneoneoneo?

[Jacob]

Russia apparently sinks ship to barricade Ukrainian navy: http://gcaptain.com/russian-warship-sunk-crimea/

[Admiral Yi]

What was he gonna do? Something? or possibly Anything? Which would let Maduro claim IMPERIALISM!!!!!1111oneoneoneo?

Kick the OAS, Brazil in particular, in the ass and tell them either they condemn Maduro's criminalization of dissent and the use of armed thugs or their commitment to democracy is bullshit.

[KRonn]

Obama is at least doing something.  It may not be as strong a response as an armchair strategist like me would like, but it is encouraging for me to see the Administration taking the situation seriously and at least taking some action.  I'm not a big fan of Obama, nor Lurch, nor Samantha Power, but I don't really have any criticism with how they've handled things thus far.  Ditto for Venezuela, though that is kind of an easier one to navigate.

Samantha Powers gave a good speech and response to Russia earlier this week at the UN. Tough and to the point, slamming Russia on a number of items. 

[The Brain]

Russia apparently sinks ship to barricade Ukrainian navy: http://gcaptain.com/russian-warship-sunk-crimea/

Actually that's Russian luxury cruise ship Costia Concordski.

[garbon]

[derspiess]

You're good with the way Barry is handling Venezuela?  I haven't heard a peep from him about the country.

It's not getting a lot of coverage due to Ukraine/Russia and frankly it's a situation where you don't want to speak *too* loudly anyway for fear of sparking the OMG YANQUI IMPERIALIST backlash.

But here's what the Administration has done:
-Make appropriate statements supporting the opposition and criticizing Maduro.
-Call for an emergency OAS meeting to discuss the situation (I think it was technically Panama who called for it but don't doubt that the US was pushing for it).  The fact that Maduro and his far left buddies in other Latin American countries were opposed to the session is probably enough proof that it was the right thing to do.
-Expel the three Venezuelan diplomats in response to Venezuela doing that to us.

None of this is particularly ballsy, but at this point I think a subtle response is probably best.  Many on the right are calling for sanctions, but depending on the nature of them they could make life worse for the people we want to help and actually lend a small amount of credibility to Maduro's claims that the mean old US is to blame for Venezuelans not being able to buy toilet paper and other imported goods.

[Admiral Yi]

Puff, remind me who owns the fracking technology.  I'm feeling like putting a bet down that Europe will change its mind real soon.