Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Zanza]

I don't think that is true at all, but I am amazed at how vociferous the support for (of all people) Putin and his merry horde is out there in Internet-comment land. It's bizzare. 

Especially when it is coming from Westerners. I get how Russians might have a different view than us. But why would anybody in the West consider the invasion of Crimea legitimate...? Leaves me dumbfounded.

[Admiral Yi]

Not sure what you mean when you say "it's policy" Shelf.  Presumably policy gets made by elected officials, not dictated to the PM and cabinet by an adviser.

[Malthus]

The position you take on who is at fault in this situation, seems to map pretty neatly onto leading anti-war figures. And the anti-war movement itself hasn't spent their time criticising Russia but blaming the US and the EU (see the Stop the War Coalitions '10 things about Crimea). There are honourable exceptions of course.

Having said that there's not been any surprises to me so far. Generally the hacks and politicians I'd expect to back Russia in this situation, have.

I looked it up. It is unbelieveable.

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/news/ten-things-to-remember-about-the-crisis-in-ukraine-and-the-crimea

These people are like the leftists Orwell was writing about. 'Imperialist war is bad mkay ... oh, but if Russia is doing it ... '

I don't get it. Russia isn't even pretending to be Communist any more. Why are these folks still backing them?

[Sheilbh]

Not sure what you mean when you say "it's policy" Shelf.  Presumably policy gets made by elected officials, not dictated to the PM and cabinet by an adviser.

He's carrying a briefing paper of UK government policy into a meeting. That's what the Cabinet decided on.

[Razgovory]

From the Lew Rockwell Blog (a favorite of Scip I think).

Poor John Kerry. He is prone to foot-in-mouth syndrome, but clearly the stress is getting to him. It's understandable. The Secretary of State and his minions went and provoked a regime change in Ukraine to which they sang the chorus "democracy" and "people power" only to discover that: 1) the new leadership has a bad case of Basil Fawlty syndrome, stiff-arming at every opportunity; and 2) a good chunk of the country (as the rest of us could tell looking at voting maps) had no intention of going along with the US-engineered regime change in Kiev.

First Crimea, with a majority Russian and Russian-speaking population, rejected the self-proclaimed government in Kiev, then one by one eastern Ukrainians began mass demonstrations where the Russian flag was hoisted on public buildings.

In Kiev, the demonstrations are "people power." In Donetsk and Sebastopol it is "armed gunmen." That is the view of western governments and their media class. But the authorities in the autonomous province of Crimea — backed by tens of thousands in the streets — did the unthinkable: they asked the Russians to protect them against the new Kiev regime which was en route to crush dissent.

Interventionism is a dirty game and there is considerable danger in believing too closely in one's own self-deceptions and on closed-loop analysis.

But what Kerry and his boss called a "invasion" looked a lot more like the neocon fantasy of how US troops would be greeted in Baghdad. In other words, for an invading force, the Russians seemed to be welcomed by the local population.

The stress was clearly too much. Today on Face the Nation Kerry delivered the kind of hilarious groaner that undermines the entire US manufactured outrage at Russia's action next door in Ukraine. Said Kerry on camera:

    It is really a stunning, willful choice by President Putin to invade another country...You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext.

One risks ruining the punchline by mentioning such words as Iraq, Libya, Mali, Somalia, Yugoslavia, and so on...

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/kerry-to-russia-you-cant-just-invade-a-country-on-false-pretext/

Libertarians.

[Admiral Yi]

He's carrying a briefing paper of UK government policy into a meeting. That's what the Cabinet decided on.

Asoka

A meeting of whom?

[Sheilbh]

I looked it up. It is unbelieveable.

And did you see their other articles. Apparently it's John Kerry and NATO that need to back off

The Ukraine crisis: John Kerry and Nato must calm down and back off
The Crisis in Ukraine: Statement by Stop the War Coalition
The dark side of the Ukraine revolt: the rise of the quasi-fascists
Ukraine back to the shatter-zone: a chess piece in the tug-of-war between East and West

[Sheilbh]

A meeting of whom?

National Security Council.

Edit: So chances are something Downing Street will have circulated before the meeting, or that he'll be using as Deputy NSA to help brief others.

[Razgovory]

Washington's Arrogance, Hubris, and Evil Have Set the Stage for War

In some quarters public awareness is catching up with Stephen Lendman, Michel Chossudovsky, Rick Rozoff, myself and a few others in realizing the grave danger in the crisis that Washington has created in Ukraine.

The puppet politicians who Washington intended to put in charge of Ukraine have lost control to organized and armed neo-nazis, who are attacking Jews, Russians, and intimidating Ukrainian politicians. The government of Crimea, a Russian province that Khrushchev transferred to the Ukraine Soviet Republic in the 1950s, has disavowed the illegitimate government that illegally seized power in Kiev and requested Russian protection. The Ukrainian military forces in Crimea have gone over to Russia. The Russian government has announced that it will also protect the former Russian provinces in eastern Ukraine as well.

As Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn pointed out, it was folly for the Communist Party of the Soviet Union to transfer historic provinces of Russia into Ukraine. At the time it seemed to the Soviet leadership like a good thing to do. Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union and had been ruled by Russia since the 18th century. Adding Russian territory to Ukraine served to water down the nazi elements in western Ukraine that had fought for Hitler during World War 2. Perhaps another factor in the enlargement of Ukraine was the fact of Khrushchev's Ukrainian heritage.

Regardless, it did not matter until the Soviet Union and then the former Russian empire itself fell apart. Under Washington's pressure, Ukraine became a separate country retaining the Russian provinces, but Russia retained its Black Sea naval base in Crimea.

Washington tried, but failed, to take Ukraine in 2004 with the Washington-financed "Orange Revolution." According to Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, since this failure Washington has "invested" $5 billion in Ukraine in order to foment agitation for EU membership for Ukraine. EU membership would open Ukraine to looting by Western bankers and corporations, but Washington's main goal is to establish US missile bases on Russia's border with Ukraine and to deprive Russia of its Black Sea naval base and military industries in eastern Ukraine. EU membership for Ukraine means NATO membership.

Washington wants missile bases in Ukraine in order to degrade Russia's nuclear deterrent, thus reducing Russia's ability to resist US hegemony. Only three countries stand in the way of Washington's hegemony over the world, Russia, China, and Iran.

Iran is surrounded by US military bases and has US fleets off its coast. The "Pivot to Asia" announced by the warmonger Obama regime is ringing China with air and naval bases. Washington is surrounding Russia with US missile and NATO bases. The corrupt Polish and Czech governments were paid to accept US missile and radar bases, which makes the Polish and Czech puppet states prime targets for nuclear annihilation. Washington has purchased the former Russian and Soviet province of Georgia, birthplace of Joseph Stalin, and is in the process of putting this puppet into NATO.

Washington's Western European puppets are too greedy for Washington's money to take cognizance of the fact that these highly provocative moves are a direct strategic threat to Russia. The attitude of European governments seems to be, "after me, the deluge."

Russia has been slow to react to the many years of Washington's provocations, hoping for some sign of good sense and good will to emerge in the West. Instead, Russia has experienced rising demonization from Washington and European capitals and foaming at the mouth vicious denunciations by the West's media whores. The bulk of the American and European populations are being brainwashed to see the problem that Washington's meddling has caused in Ukraine to be Russia's fault. Yesterday, I heard on National Public Radio a presstitute from the New Republic describe Putin as the problem.

The ignorance, absence of integrity, and lack of independence of the US media greatly enhances the prospect for war. The picture being drawn for insouciant Americans is totally false. An informed people would have burst out laughing when US Secretary of State John Kerry denounced Russia for "invading Ukraine" in "violation of international law." Kerry is the foreign minister of a country that has illegally invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, organized the overthrow of the government in Libya, tried to overthrow the government in Syria, attacks the civilian populations of Pakistan and Yemen with drones and missiles, constantly threatens Iran with attack, unleashed the US and Israeli trained Georgian army on the Russian population of South Ossetia, and now threatens Russia with sanctions for standing up for Russians and Russian strategic interests. The Russian government noted that Kerry has raised hypocrisy to a new level.

Kerry has no answer to the question: "Since when does the United States government genuinely subscribe and defend the concept of sovereignty and territorial integrity?"

Kerry, as is always the case, is lying through his teeth. Russia hasn't invaded Ukraine. Russia sent a few more troops to join those at its Black Sea base in view of the violent anti-Russian statements and actions emanating from Kiev. As the Ukrainian military in Crimea defected to Russia, the additional Russian troops were hardly necessary.

The stupid Kerry, wallowing in his arrogance, hubris, and evil, has issued direct threats to Russia. The Russian foreign minister has dismissed Kerry's threats as "unacceptable." The stage is set for war.

Note the absurdity of the situation. Kiev has been taken over by ultra-nationalist neo-nazis. A band of ultra-nationalist thugs is the last thing the European Union wants or needs as a member state. The EU is centralizing power and suppressing the sovereignty of the member states. Note the alignment of the neoconservative Obama regime with anti-semitic neo-nazis. The neoconservative clique that has dominated the US government since the Clinton regime is heavily Jewish, many of whom are dual Israeli/US citizens. The Jewish neoconservatives, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and National Security Adviser Susan Rice, have lost control of their coup to neo-Nazis who preach "death to the Jews."

The Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported on February 24 that Ukrainian Rabbi Moshe Reuven Azman advised "Kiev's Jews to leave the city and even the country." Edward Dolinsky, head of an umbrella organization of Ukrainian Jews, described the situation for Ukrainian Jews as "dire" and requested Israel's help.

This is the situation that Washington created and defends, while accusing Russia of stifling Ukrainian democracy. An elected democracy is what Ukraine had before Washington overthrew it.

At this time there is no legitimate Ukrainian government.

Everyone needs to understand that Washington is lying about Ukraine just as Washington lied about Saddam Hussein and weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, just as Washington lied about Iranian nukes, just as Washington lied about Syrian president Assad using chemical weapons, just as Washington lied about Afghanistan, Libya, NSA spying, torture. What hasn't Washington lied about?

Washington is comprised of three elements: Arrogance, Hubris, and Evil. There is nothing else there.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and associate editor of the Wall Street Journal. He was columnist for Business Week, Scripps Howard News Service, and Creators Syndicate. He has had many university appointments. His internet columns have attracted a worldwide following. His latest book, The Failure of Laissez Faire Capitalism and Economic Dissolution of the West is now available.

http://www.infowars.com/washingtons-arrogance-hubris-and-evil-have-set-the-stage-for-war/

Apparently this guy was considered one the brains behind Reganomics.  Damned lefty antiwar types showing their true colors.

[Barrister]

The position you take on who is at fault in this situation, seems to map pretty neatly onto leading anti-war figures. And the anti-war movement itself hasn't spent their time criticising Russia but blaming the US and the EU (see the Stop the War Coalitions '10 things about Crimea). There are honourable exceptions of course.

Having said that there's not been any surprises to me so far. Generally the hacks and politicians I'd expect to back Russia in this situation, have.

I looked it up. It is unbelieveable.

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/news/ten-things-to-remember-about-the-crisis-in-ukraine-and-the-crimea

These people are like the leftists Orwell was writing about. 'Imperialist war is bad mkay ... oh, but if Russia is doing it ... '

I don't get it. Russia isn't even pretending to be Communist any more. Why are these folks still backing them?

Yeah, I looked it up to.  Gadzooks.

I think it's not that they're pro-Russia, it's that they're anti West.

[crazy canuck]

Okay, but it's not something I ever accused her of.

Go back to the post where you said you agreed with Tamas.  I dont hink you meant it in that way either.  But he did.

[crazy canuck]

The position you take on who is at fault in this situation, seems to map pretty neatly onto leading anti-war figures. And the anti-war movement itself hasn't spent their time criticising Russia but blaming the US and the EU (see the Stop the War Coalitions '10 things about Crimea). There are honourable exceptions of course.

Having said that there's not been any surprises to me so far. Generally the hacks and politicians I'd expect to back Russia in this situation, have.

I looked it up. It is unbelieveable.

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/news/ten-things-to-remember-about-the-crisis-in-ukraine-and-the-crimea

These people are like the leftists Orwell was writing about. 'Imperialist war is bad mkay ... oh, but if Russia is doing it ... '

I don't get it. Russia isn't even pretending to be Communist any more. Why are these folks still backing them?

There is always hope comrade.

[DGuller]

I think Russophilia can be observed on both the far left and the far right, how about that?  The far left are against everything remotely traditional the West is for.  The far right finds the Russian form of fascism ideologically appealing.

[Sheilbh]

Okay, but it's not something I ever accused her of.

Go back to the post where you said you agreed with Tamas.  I dont hink you meant it in that way either.  But he did.

Sure it does:

BTW I think one thing this crisis shows is that indeed just how much western politicians are in fact totally in the pocket of various businessmen. I mean, all-out economic war with Russia in terms of blocking them from most everything would be an inconvenience for the western countries, but would totally crumble Putin's regime.
So cowardly shit like the UK leaked doc on not hurting business relations just shows that the priorities the politicians have/want to follow.

I'd dispute 'totally'

[Sheilbh]

I think Russophilia can be observed on both the far left and the far right, how about that?  The far left are against everything remotely traditional the West is for.  The far right finds the Russian form of fascism ideologically appealing.

Yeah there's a trend of right-winger that quite like Putin. As I say he's remade Russia's old role as the global voice of reaction which, in its way, is as appealing as Communism.

And there's the anti-West on the left.