Ukraine's European Revolution?

[LaCroix]

So I'd have no problem giving them some nuclear warheads and some long range missiles, we still have over 5,000 nuclear warheads and I'm sure we could spare some delivery systems.

not going to happen. that's just nonsense

@razgovory -- insanity, no comment

@queequeg -- obsession, no comment

@alfred russell -- world's biggest over-exaggeration

right now i agree with yi's latest comment

[Iormlund]

HOWEVER, Ukraine is the first step in this theoretical progression of conquest: UKRAINE, Poland, Germany, France, SPAIN.

Iormlund, you might want to start studying Russian just in case.

The French still have nukes. Spain is pretty safe.

Still, my question stands, at what point do you fight?

When we have a federated Europe. If we can't even agree on economic transfers giving our lives for our fellow Eurobuddies is obviously out of the question.

[Syt]

From the Guardian liveblog:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/01/crimea-crisis-deepens-as-russia-and-ukraine-ready-forces-live-updates

Good Morning

* Sergei Aksenov, the prime minister of Crimea has claimed control of all military, police and other security services in the region and appealed to Russia for help.
* Troops, believed to be Russian, although not all are wearing clear insignias, have taken control of airports and other key sites.
* President Obama has warned that if Russia breaches Ukrainian sovereignty there will be "costs".
* The Ukrainian defence minister has ordered all Ukrainian army units in Crimea to be on high alert.

Reuters are snapping statements from Kiev and Moscow.

UKRAINE'S DEFENCE MINISTER SAYS UKRAINIAN MILITARY ON HIGH ALERT IN CRIMEA REGION

UKRAINIAN DEFENCE MINISTER SAYS RUSSIA HAS RECENTLY BROUGHT 6,000 ADDITIONAL TROOPS INTO UKRAINE

RUSSIA "EXTREMELY CONCERNED" ABOUT DEVELOPMENTS IN UKRAINE'S CRIMEA - RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTRY STATEMENT

RUSSIA SAYS RECENT DEVELOPMENTS IN CRIMEA CONFIRM "DESIRE OF PROMINENT POLITICAL CIRCLES IN KIEV" TO DESTABILISE SITUATION ON THE PENINUSLA

The Russian foreign ministry have also accused Kiev of escalating the situation in Crimea by attempting to kidnap the Crimean interior minister

Here is Russia Today's report on the alleged kidnap attempt.

Unknown armed men from Kiev have tried to seize the Crimean Interior Ministry overnight, and there were several injuries in that attack, Russia's Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

"Thanks to the decisive action of self-defense squads, the attempt to seize the building of the Interior Ministry was derailed. This attempt confirms the intention of prominent political circles in Kiev to destabilize the situation on the peninsula," the statement added.

Moscow is very concerned with the latest developments in Crimea and thinks any further escalation would be irresponsible, the ministry added.

Crimeans began protesting after the new self-proclaimed government in Kiev introduced a law abolishing the use of other languages in official circumstances in Ukraine. More than half the Crimean population are Russian and use only this language for their communication. The residents have announced they are going to hold a referendum on March 30 to determine the fate of the Ukrainian autonomous region.

[Zanza]

Russia occupies Transnistria, Abkhazia, and Ossetia for years or decades already without any international consequences. They'll just do that same on the Crimea.

[Grinning_Colossus]

For those of us who've been skeptical of Maidan due to the universal tendency of Eastern European ethnic nationalists to try to ban every language that isn't their own, impose a corrupt and archaic state church, and shoot every ethnic or religious minority:


The ex-Israeli soldier who led a Kiev fighting unit

He calls his troops "the Blue Helmets of Maidan," but brown is the color of the headgear worn by Delta — the nom de guerre of the commander of a Jewish-led militia force that participated in the Ukrainian revolution. Under his helmet, he also wears a kippah. 

Delta, a Ukraine-born former soldier in the Israel Defense Forces, spoke to JTA Thursday on condition of anonymity. He explained how he came to use combat skills he acquired in the Shu'alei Shimshon reconnaissance battalion of the Givati infantry brigade to rise through the ranks of Kiev's street fighters. He has headed a force of 40 men and women — including several fellow IDF veterans — in violent clashes with government forces.

Several Ukrainian Jews, including Rabbi Moshe Azman, one of the country's claimants to the title of chief rabbi, confirmed Delta's identity and role in the still-unfinished revolution.

The "Blue Helmets" nickname, a reference to the UN peacekeeping force, stuck after Delta's unit last month prevented a mob from torching a building occupied by Ukrainian police, he said. "There were dozens of officers inside, surrounded by 1,200 demonstrators who wanted to burn them alive," he recalled. "We intervened and negotiated their safe passage."

The problem, he said, was that the officers would not leave without their guns, citing orders. Delta told JTA his unit reasoned with the mob to allow the officers to leave with their guns. "It would have been a massacre, and that was not an option," he said.

The Blue Helmets comprise 35 men and women who are not Jewish, and who are led by five ex-IDF soldiers, says Delta, an Orthodox Jew in his late 30s who regularly prays at Azman's Brodsky Synagogue. He declined to speak about his private life.

Delta, who immigrated to Israel in the 1990s, moved back to Ukraine several years ago and has worked as a businessman. He says he joined the protest movement as a volunteer on November 30, after witnessing violence by government forces against student protesters.

"I saw unarmed civilians with no military background being ground by a well-oiled military machine, and it made my blood boil," Delta told JTA in Hebrew laced with military jargon. "I joined them then and there, and I started fighting back the way I learned how, through urban warfare maneuvers. People followed, and I found myself heading a platoon of young men. Kids, really."

The other ex-IDF infantrymen joined the Blue Helmets later after hearing it was led by a fellow vet, Delta said.

As platoon leader, Delta says he takes orders from activists connected to Svoboda, an ultra-nationalist party that has been frequently accused of anti-Semitism and whose members have been said to have had key positions in organizing the opposition protests.

"I don't belong [to Svoboda], but I take orders from their team. They know I'm Israeli, Jewish and an ex-IDF soldier. They call me 'brother,'" he said. "What they're saying about Svoboda is exaggerated, I know this for a fact. I don't like them because they're inconsistent, not because of [any] anti-Semitism issue."

The commanding position of Svoboda in the revolution is no secret, according to Ariel Cohen, a senior research fellow at the Washington D.C.-based Heritage Foundation think tank.

"The driving force among the so-called white sector in the Maidan are the nationalists, who went against the SWAT teams and snipers who were shooting at them," Cohen told JTA.

Still, many Jews supported the revolution and actively participated in it.

Earlier this week, an interim government was announced ahead of election scheduled for May, including ministers from several minority groups.

Volodymyr Groysman, a former mayor of the city of Vinnytsia and the newly appointed deputy prime minister for regional policy, is a Jew, Rabbi Azman said.

"There are no signs for concern yet," said Cohen, "but the West needs to make it clear to Ukraine that how it is seen depends on how minorities are treated."

On Wednesday, Russian State Duma Chairman Sergey Naryshkin said Moscow was concerned about anti-Semitic declarations by radical groups in Ukraine.

But Delta says the Kremlin is using the anti-Semitism card falsely to delegitimize the Ukrainian revolution, which is distancing Ukraine from Russia's sphere of influence.

"It's bullshit. I never saw any expression of anti-Semitism during the protests, and the claims to the contrary were part of the reason I joined the movement. We're trying to show that Jews care," he said.

Still, Delta's reasons for not revealing his name betray his sense of feeling like an outsider. "If I were Ukrainian, I would have been a hero. But for me it's better to not reveal my name if I want to keep living here in peace and quiet," he said.

Fellow Jews have criticized him for working with Svoboda. "Some asked me if instead of 'Shalom' they should now greet me with a 'Sieg heil.' I simply find it laughable," he said. But he does have frustrations related to being an outsider. "Sometimes I tell myself, 'What are you doing? This is not your army. This isn't even your country.'"

He recalls feeling this way during one of the fiercest battles he experienced, which took place last week at Institutskaya Street and left 12 protesters dead. "The snipers began firing rubber bullets at us. I fired back from my rubber-bullet rifle," Delta said.

"Then they opened live rounds, and my friend caught a bullet in his leg. They shot at us like at a firing range. I wasn't ready for a last stand. I carried my friend and ordered my troops to fall back. They're scared kids. I gave them some cash for phone calls and told them to take off their uniform and run away until further instructions. I didn't want to see anyone else die that day."

Currently, the Blue Helmets are carrying out police work that include patrols and preventing looting and vandalism in a city of 3 million struggling to climb out of the chaos that engulfed it for the past three months.

But Delta has another, more ambitious, project: He and Azman are organizing the airborne evacuation of seriously wounded protesters — none of them Jewish — for critical operations in Israel. One of the patients, a 19-year-old woman, was wounded at Institutskaya by a bullet that penetrated her eye and is lodged inside her brain, according to Delta. Azman says he hopes the plane of 17 patients will take off next week, with funding from private donors and with help from Ukraine's ambassador to Israel.

"The doctor told me that another millimeter to either direction and she would be dead," Delta said. "And I told him it was the work of Hakadosh Baruch Hu."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114

[celedhring]

HOWEVER, Ukraine is the first step in this theoretical progression of conquest: UKRAINE, Poland, Germany, France, SPAIN.

Iormlund, you might want to start studying Russian just in case.

The French still have nukes. Spain is pretty safe.

No. Thanks to that new referendum law the Russians seem to be passing, we'll turn Catalonia into a Russian beachhead 

[Syt]

Crimean parliament have preponed (this should totally be a word) the date for the referendum forward to 30th March.

Ukrainian news claims that Russian troops try to take over a Ukrainian AA missile site?

[alfred russel]

So I'd have no problem giving them some nuclear warheads and some long range missiles, we still have over 5,000 nuclear warheads and I'm sure we could spare some delivery systems.

not going to happen. that's just nonsense

@razgovory -- insanity, no comment

@queequeg -- obsession, no comment

@alfred russell -- world's biggest over-exaggeration

right now i agree with yi's latest comment

You people should realize that I was sarcastic. There is zero risk to Spain, France, Germany, and Poland.

[Syt]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/01/crimea-crisis-deepens-as-russia-and-ukraine-ready-forces-live-updates

In Moscow, Reuters reports that the Duma, has asked President Vladimir Putin to take measures to stabilise the situation in Ukraine's Crimea.

Sergei Naryshkin, the speaker of the Duma, said "The Duma Council adopted an appeal to the president of Russia, in which parliamentarians are calling on the president to take measures to stabilise the situation in Crimea and use all available means to protect the people of Crimea from tyranny and violence."

Kiev-based Unian report some more worrying developments.

The State Border Guard Service of Ukraine said that about 300 soldiers are trying to capture a Sevastopol naval bases. Ukrainian ships have ordered to sea.

It is not clear if weapons are being fired or if there are any injuries.

According to various Russian and Ukrainian reports, the crisis is spreading from Crimea to other parts of the Ukraine. There are reports that pro-Russian demonstrators in Donestsk and Kharkiv have attempted to take parliament buildings.

Unconfirmed report! Shots fired at Donetsk Regional State Admin, 34, Pushkina Bul., Donetsk |PR News #russiainvadesukraine #ukraineprotests

[Syt]

http://rt.com/news/berkut-police-russian-passports-266/

Russia starts giving out passports to Ukraine's ex-Berkut officers pelted with 'threats'

http://rt.com/news/russia-crimea-sieze-gunmen-344/

The Upper Chamber of the Russian Parliament admitted a limited number of Russian troops could be brought to Crimea to ensure safety, speaker Valentina Matvienko said.

"It's possible in this situation, complying with a request by the Crimean government, even to bring a limited contingent of our troops to ensure the safety of the Back Sea Fleet and the Russian citizens living on the Crimea territory. The decision is for the president, the chief military commander, to make of course. But today, taking the situation into account, even that variant can't be excluded. We need to protect the people," Matvienko said.

[Sheilbh]

While I know he has the strong support of a lot of hard nationalist Russians, I think if the West actually started imposing significant negative consequences on Russia he'd lose significant support. Right now he's basically able to paint himself as a respected world leader, hosting the Olympics, getting invites to all the fancy summits etc, we're enabling him.

And I think there is something to the mafia state theory of Putin's Russia. Chekists run the country to make their billions but they spend them sending their kids to Eton, buying property in Kensington and shopping in Knightsbridge. All of that can be stopped. As I say we can start refusing visas, freezing assets and investigating money laundering far more aggressively. Which I think would also cause him to lose significant support among the elite. If Putin's not able to let his supporters enjoy their money then what's the point of him?

For me the scale and strength of the Russian response to the Magnitsky Act suggests that's really the way to hurt them. Don't just make Russia a pariah make the people who are benefiting from Putin's rule pariahs.

And no, most Russians don't want a return to the Cold War.  What they do want, however, is the return of a strong Russia, and an internationally relevant Russia.  Putin feeds that need.

What's really interesting is the way Putin's even managed to restore an element of ideology to it. Russia's back as the voice of counter-revolution and 'traditional' values. They've used the anti-gay laws as part of the propaganda in several other states (including Ukraine). Their support for Assad has partially been sold as the traditional Russian role of protector for Christians in the Middle East. They're even starting to get involved with the growing Israeli-Greek-Cypriot cooperation, to counter Turkey.

[Razgovory]

Still, my question stands, at what point do you fight?

Cold War 101: you never fight. It's not a video game. But you position yourself so that the only way your opponent can get what they want is to attack you outright. Yes, if they actually do it you fight then, but the nature of human decision making strongly suggests that won't happen. Kennedy, for all that I do consider him an overrated and weak President, he showed what happens when you draw a line in the sand. You create a scenario for your enemy where they can either cross that line and preserve their standing, their manhood, whatever--or they find a way not to, and preserve everything else.

It's not the cold war, and even then you had to show a willingness to fight.

[Queequeg]

This is the same Russian army that sells it's weapons to Chechen militants.

[Sheilbh]

Apparently Putin's asking the Duma (I think) for permission to use force.

[Queequeg]

Across Ukraine, NOT just in Crimea.