Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Malthus]

It's a poem. There's no 'meaning', there are 'meanings'. You may oppose the one that you've read into it, but that doesn't make it true.

If you're looking at the politics of that song in particular it was initially put to music as a 'bracing' and 'patriotic' hymn during WW1, since then it was the song of the Suffragette movement, preferred to 'God Save the King' by George V, and it's been used at Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, BNP and Women's Institute conferences.

Not to mention it's current use as an anthem for England at some sporting events, and its particular resonance in public school chapels and well-bred country weddings in appropriately latitudinarian Anglican Churches.

Wiki rather brilliantly describes a show about Jerusalem as England's national anthem having the following proponents, 'varied contributions come from Howard Goodall, Billy Bragg, Gary Bushell, Lord Hattersley, Ann Widdecombe and David Mellor, war proponents, war opponents, suffragettes, trade unionists, public schoolboys, the Tories, New Labour, football supporters, the British National Party, the Women's Institute, a gay choir, a gospel choir, Fat Les and naturists.'

As I say, it's got meaning, not a meaning.

Edit: Incidentally George V is right. As an anthem it's far better than 'God Save the King'. As you say it makes the knees go wobbly, rather than rigid. Which is what a good anthem should do.

To my mind the meaning is all about the longing for building a utopian society out of the distinctly non-utopian present. Details of the utopia no doubt vary. 

[Queequeg]

How is no one talking about the attack on the Uke base?

[Malthus]

How is no one talking about the attack on the Uke base?

Link me.

[Jacob]

Shelf, what exactly does "High Church Anglican" mean?

Anglicans who are pretty Catholic in outlook, rites, and decoration preferences.

[Valmy]

How is no one talking about the attack on the Uke base?

What does that have to do with George V?

But seriously what attack?  I rely on this thread for my news.

[Jacob]

How is no one talking about the attack on the Uke base?

Because we haven't heard about it yet. What's going on?

[Queequeg]

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-18-moscow-and-washington-are-far-apart-on-crimea/#2041

[Viking]

- I don't know if there has been any shooting at the uke base
- landing at cossack bay? A) that sounds pretty much like an invsaion B) those french amphibious assault ships would have been useful in that C) always good to invade along the same route invaders too previously, too bad the invaders were invading russia

[Savonarola]

How is no one talking about the attack on the Uke base?

The Beeb is reporting it now:

Ukraine crisis: Stand-off at Crimea military base

here is reportedly a stand-off between what are thought to be Russian soldiers and Ukrainian troops at a military base outside the Crimean city of Sevastopol.

A BBC correspondent says two Russian military lorries are manoeuvring outside, surrounded by armed men.

There is no sign that the base has been seized and no shots have been fired.

Troops wearing Russian uniform without insignia and their supporters have blockaded bases in Crimea since taking control of the peninsula last week.

The Interfax-Ukraine news agency reported that about 100 Ukrainian military personnel were stationed at missile defence base A2355 on Friday evening.

Citing a duty officer and Ukraine's defence ministry, the agency said a Kamaz lorry had rammed open the gates of the facility and about 20 "attackers" had entered, throwing stun grenades.

The Ukrainian troops immediately barricaded themselves inside a building and their commander had begun negotiations, it added.

The BBC's Christian Fraser, who is at the scene, said the gates did not appear to have been driven through, and there was no sign that the base had been seized.

There are two trucks from the Russian Black Fleet outside the gates, surrounded by irregular soldiers and a very hostile crowd of pro-Russian demonstrators, he adds.

Two journalists who attempted to take photographs were beaten badly.

The incident comes hours after Russian parliamentarians gave a standing ovation to a delegation of pro-Moscow politicians from Crimea, promising support if they wanted to become part of Russia.

The region is due to hold a referendum on 16 March, on whether to join Russia or remain part of Ukraine.

The vote has been denounced by the interim government in Kiev and Western powers as illegitimate.

A spokesman for Russian President Vladimir Putin said that, despite profound disagreements, he hoped that Russia and the West would not return to the Cold War.

[Sheilbh]

Man even the King didn't like God Save the King.  Anyway I just thought God Save the King was the UK's anthem, while each country in the UK had their own anthem.

It should be. At most events England uses God Save the Queen too, which seems bad to me.

Shelf, what exactly does "High Church Anglican" mean?

Historically Anglicans who placed a lot of emphasis on traditional liturgy, creed and doctrine. Their liturgy looks more or less Catholic (they even have confession) and they would rather disestablishment than changing doctrine (or liturgy) to please the state. Better a real Church in England, than a compromised Church of England. It's Newman, Pusey, Gladstone.

Nowadays they're as likely to be liberal as not, they don't hugely care about disestablishment (not least because Parliament's no longer involved in doctrine) and they're primarily identified by their approach to liturgy which remains sacramental and ritualistic. A conservative High Church service, following the 1662 Prayerbook, is more Catholic than a normal Catholic service following Vatican II reforms.

Low Church were/are evangelical, Broad Church were latitudinarian.

[Sheilbh]

The Chancelleries of Europe can relax. Clegg's on it:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/07/nick-clegg-crimea-deal-vladimir-putin-kgb-mentality

[Valmy]

The Chancelleries of Europe can relax. Clegg's on it:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/07/nick-clegg-crimea-deal-vladimir-putin-kgb-mentality

It is time for the Liberal Democrats to dazzle the world with their diplomatic prowess.

[celedhring]

I'm starting to believe that everyday Russian Ivan Ivanovich doesn't give much of a shit about this either, today there was a supposedly massive demo in Moscow in favor of assimilating Crimea and according to sources there were 65,000 people - which is pretty pitiful given the circumstances.

[Sheilbh]

The Chancelleries of Europe can relax. Clegg's on it:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/07/nick-clegg-crimea-deal-vladimir-putin-kgb-mentality

It is time for the Liberal Democrats to dazzle the world with their diplomatic prowess.

Yeah. I mean the last time the Liberals were shaping foreign policy things turned out....

Oh

[11B4V]

A spokesman for Russian President Vladimir Putin said that, despite profound disagreements, he hoped that Russia and the West would not return to the Cold War.

Fuck it. Let it roll. Maybe we can get some good wargames.