The Government Shutdown Countdown Lowdown MEGATHREAD

[Jacob]

Because once a government policy goes into place it is very difficult to reverse.  They know once ObamaCare goes into effect getting rid of it will be almost tantamount to political suicide.  You just need a certain critical mass of people and businesses who benefit from something and it is almost untouchable no matter if it benefits the country as a whole or not.

I mean look at the freaking farm subsidies.  Almost everybody hates them but if they were ever seriously challenged lots of people would get tossed out of office.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense.

[Admiral Yi]

Why not default and let the Republicans reap what they sowed?

Isn't that what's going to happen?

I'll answer your question if you answer mine.

[Ideologue]

Well... it's not true for Republican voters, of course, but for the politicians?

I mean... if Obamacare is actually as disastrous as Republicans claim, why keep fighting it? Why not let it go through and let the Democrats reap what they sowed?

Why not default and let the Republicans reap what they sowed?

I'm open to buyout negotiations for our bet.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm open to buyout negotiations for our bet.

20 bucks.

[Admiral Yi]

No, takes backs.  Anything can happen in politics.

[Jacob]

Why not default and let the Republicans reap what they sowed?

Isn't that what's going to happen?

I'll answer your question if you answer mine.

That was my answer - I think the default will happen if the Republicans try to use the debt ceiling to defund Obamacare, and do not back down. There is an outside chance of Obama stepping in with a 14th amendment argument that he debt ceiling law is unconstitutional and thus he'll ignore it, but it's miniscule.

If the Republicans are willing to pull the trigger on a default if Obamacare is not defunded, the Dems won't stop them.

[Admiral Yi]

That was my answer - I think the default will happen if the Republicans try to use the debt ceiling to defund Obamacare, and do not back down. There is an outside chance of Obama stepping in with a 14th amendment argument that he debt ceiling law is unconstitutional and thus he'll ignore it, but it's miniscule.

If the Republicans are willing to pull the trigger on a default if Obamacare is not defunded, the Dems won't stop them.

That's not the question.

You said Republicans should let O-care be implemented so that the public will see how horrible it is and punish the Democrats.

I asked shouldn't the same logic dictate that Democrats allow a default out of political self interest.

[Jacob]

That's not the question.

You said Republicans should let O-care be implemented so that the public will see how horrible it is and punish the Democrats.

I asked shouldn't the same logic dictate that Democrats allow a default out of political self interest.

Ignoring your biased framing for a moment: they should, and they are. The Democrats have nowhere to go; if the Republicans are willing to pull the trigger on a default over defunding Obamacare, the Democrats won't stop them.

[Ideologue]

No, takes backs.  Anything can happen in politics.

Drat, that was a couple pizzas.

[Admiral Yi]

Ignoring your biased framing for a moment: they should, and they are. The Democrats have nowhere to go; if the Republicans are willing to pull the trigger on a default over defunding Obamacare, the Democrats won't stop them.

Now that the moment's over, tell me how the framing is biased.

You're still ducking the question BTW.  The question is not about the outcome, it's about allowing ostensibly bad policy for political gain.

[CountDeMoney]

I am amused that you think I do.

And I am amused by you breathlessly reporting on her twitter posting habits, like any of us possibly care (maybe CdM, but I expect he also follws her, and so already knew).

I tweet not and don't read any either.

[Jacob]

Now that the moment's over, tell me how the framing is biased.

You are equating two different outcomes as being equal by framing them both as "political gain" when one is orders of magnitude worse than the other.

On one hand you have accepting a law which, however difficult it may be, can be amended and repealed in future legislative sessions if the voters empower it, and on which opinions are divided; on the other hand you have triggering an irreversible economic disaster, which it is universally agreed will have far reaching and negative consequences, furthermore it normalizes the idea that it is acceptable for the party which is out of power to hold the economy hostage to enact their agenda.

Secondly, by framing it as "Democrats allowing it" you are rhetorically shifting the responsibility for Republican actions to the Democrats.

You're still ducking the question BTW.  The question is not about the outcome, it's about allowing ostensibly bad policy for political gain

It is not the Democrats who are allowing it. It is the Republicans who are actively causing it.

But - for the second moment of ignoring your biased framing - the Democrats will and should allow it. Not for political gain, but because they have no other choice.

[Razgovory]

Yeah.  I am amused by the fact that spicey follows Michelle Obama on twitter.

He has some kind of obsession with her. He's constantly going on about her hair, her teeth, her arms etc.

Oh, I do, I do.  I must mention her at least 2 or 3 times a year!

Actually this is the 38th time this year.

[Rasputin]

still haven't missed the federal government

Again, what exactly do you do with the Feds that made you think them being shut down for a few hours was going to impact you personally?

Some of my clients use their courts; we have state courts here in florida though. All will be fine.

[garbon]

because they have no other choice.