For CdM: Bullshit jobs

[Maximus]

To counter Berkut, a lawyer isn't really like a security guard at Wal-mart - a lawyer is more like the architect one hires to build the Wal-mart. Does an architect "make anything"? S/he plans out what others will make, taking into account the local building codes, the physical layout of the mall, and the customer's needs. Similarly, a corporate lawyer plans out how a buisness is to operate, down to such minor details as whether the baby sleepware sold in the store mas to be seperately tested in that specific jurisdiction or whether the testing in (say) California would suffice. Plan badly, and very bad things happen. This is not something you want to farm out to some dude in India ...

An architect guards against natural hazards, gravity, earthquakes, weather, decay, etc.

Lawyers guard against hazards created by other lawyers.

They are more akin to medieval mercenaries. They are awful, but if you don't have them and the other guy does, you're fucked.

[Berkut]

You have to tell us what occurs that would move commercial lawyering from the cost to the profit center.

Being a lawfirm.

That would work, at least from the perspective of the law firm.

You would still be part of a cost center from the perspective of whomever you are doing the work for, of course.

[Berkut]

Except quite frequently I am quite befuddled as to what, exactly, defence lawyers are doing...

Even after they've done it?

Yes.

There are many who are quite good at what they're doing, and I know exactly what it is they are doing.  But I minority I can't help but think WTF did I just see???

I could imagine being a defense lawyer could be pretty damn hard at times. I mean, as a prosecutory, your job is pretty straighforward in the broad strokes, and you know what you need to do to accomplish it.

Defense?

I suspect sometimes they have to be like "Fuck, this is hopeless. Lets just try some random shit and hope for the best..."

[Zanza]

Nah, then you are just a supplier. Cost and profit centers are only internal functions.

[Eddie Teach]

Yes.

There are many who are quite good at what they're doing, and I know exactly what it is they are doing.  But I minority I can't help but think WTF did I just see???

I'm not clear whether you're referring to acts of wizardry or buffoonery.

[Berkut]

Nah, then you are just a supplier. Cost and profit centers are only internal functions.

True, but the suppliers do fall into those same functions.

For example, a supplier who supplies parts to the manufacturing division that goes into the product is typically considered to be part of that profit center, even though they are not an internal division.

[Barrister]

Except quite frequently I am quite befuddled as to what, exactly, defence lawyers are doing...

Even after they've done it?

Yes.

There are many who are quite good at what they're doing, and I know exactly what it is they are doing.  But I minority I can't help but think WTF did I just see???

I could imagine being a defense lawyer could be pretty damn hard at times. I mean, as a prosecutory, your job is pretty straighforward in the broad strokes, and you know what you need to do to accomplish it.

Defense?

I suspect sometimes they have to be like "Fuck, this is hopeless. Lets just try some random shit and hope for the best..."

But even where there is seemingly no hope, there is still a pretty standard game plan.  Cross examine the witnesses, zero in on any inconsistencies, no matter how minor, then argue the presumption of innocence and proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Teach, I'm talking about buffoonery.

[mongers]

To counter Berkut, a lawyer isn't really like a security guard at Wal-mart - a lawyer is more like the architect one hires to build the Wal-mart. Does an architect "make anything"? S/he plans out what others will make, taking into account the local building codes, the physical layout of the mall, and the customer's needs. Similarly, a corporate lawyer plans out how a buisness is to operate, down to such minor details as whether the baby sleepware sold in the store mas to be seperately tested in that specific jurisdiction or whether the testing in (say) California would suffice. Plan badly, and very bad things happen. This is not something you want to farm out to some dude in India ...

An architect guards against natural hazards, gravity, earthquakes, weather, decay, etc.

Lawyers guard against hazards created by other lawyers.

They are more akin to medieval mercenaries. They are awful, but if you don't have them and the other guy does, you're fucked.

An interesting point of view. 

[Berkut]

To counter Berkut, a lawyer isn't really like a security guard at Wal-mart - a lawyer is more like the architect one hires to build the Wal-mart. Does an architect "make anything"? S/he plans out what others will make, taking into account the local building codes, the physical layout of the mall, and the customer's needs. Similarly, a corporate lawyer plans out how a buisness is to operate, down to such minor details as whether the baby sleepware sold in the store mas to be seperately tested in that specific jurisdiction or whether the testing in (say) California would suffice. Plan badly, and very bad things happen. This is not something you want to farm out to some dude in India ...

An architect guards against natural hazards, gravity, earthquakes, weather, decay, etc.

Lawyers guard against hazards created by other lawyers.

They are more akin to medieval mercenaries. They are awful, but if you don't have them and the other guy does, you're fucked.

Not a bad analogy, but it misses the part of their job that deals with

1) Protecting the business from lawsuits from consumers (although the consumer lawyers are, I suppose, akin to mercenaries as well, but there is an element of simply making sure the business is aware of and dealing with prtecting themselves from perfectly valid lawsuits as well).
2) Protecting the business from regulatory dangers, and
3) Taxes.

[MadImmortalMan]

The security guard protects the business against risks too. So do the janitors cleaning the floors so customers don't slip and sue the place. And the risk of grossing the customers out with a dirty environment and driving away business. All the non-production jobs are the same that way. My job is too. Lump me in with the lawyers and the security guard.

There are whole businesses that are composed entirely of non-"producing" operations.

[crazy canuck]

To counter Berkut, a lawyer isn't really like a security guard at Wal-mart - a lawyer is more like the architect one hires to build the Wal-mart. Does an architect "make anything"? S/he plans out what others will make, taking into account the local building codes, the physical layout of the mall, and the customer's needs. Similarly, a corporate lawyer plans out how a buisness is to operate, down to such minor details as whether the baby sleepware sold in the store mas to be seperately tested in that specific jurisdiction or whether the testing in (say) California would suffice. Plan badly, and very bad things happen. This is not something you want to farm out to some dude in India ...

An architect guards against natural hazards, gravity, earthquakes, weather, decay, etc.

Lawyers guard against hazards created by other lawyers.

They are more akin to medieval mercenaries. They are awful, but if you don't have them and the other guy does, you're fucked.

Actually, often times lawyers help business people to structure their affairs in much more efficient ways without there being anyone in opposition to them.  That is the bulk what what a lot of commercial lawyers do.

[DGuller]

So you guys moonlight as business consultants?

[crazy canuck]

So you guys moonlight as business consultants?

There is no moonlighting about it.  You guys just have a very very narrow view of what lawyers actually do.  There are a number of strategic and pracitical decisions that need to be made regarding how best to run a business that directly engage legal judgment.  It used to be that the GCs were not part of the executive of a company.  Now it is difficult to find one that is not.

This has given rise to a number of issues regarding solicitor client priviledge and the degree to which it might be eroded by counsel acting as a decision maker.

[Caliga]

Our GC is also an Executive VP and the Chief Administrative Officer.

[crazy canuck]

Our GC is also an Executive VP and the Chief Administrative Officer.

Yeah, that is the trend.