Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12.1%)
British - Leave
7 (7.1%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21.2%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6.1%)
ROTW - Remain
33 (33.3%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20.2%)

Total Members Voted: 97


If we want to prevent catastrophic economic and societal change we will have to radically change our climate system.

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Grey Fox

Colonel Caliga is Awesome.


Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 05, 2022, 11:48:01 PMIn England a booster shot is called a borcestershire shot.

Stolen from interweb.


Yeah that took some getting used to here.

Display on train: next stop, Worcester Park. Audio announcer: next stop: wosta' park


Piece by Hadley Freeman in the Jewish Chronicle. From what I understand she's left the Guardian because of her "gender critical" stance, but I heard her speak and she also mentioned that she was discouraged from writing about Corbyn/Labour/anti-semitism because she's Jewish - which isn't great.

So I thought this was interesting for calling out some of the comments she received as a Jew, on the left who was raising the issue of anti-semitism in Labour during Corbyn's leadership. I think Starmer's done all of the right things on this, but I think at some point there needs to be a bit of a confrontation/reckoning on this on the left especially with people who just looked the other way or said any of the things Freeman flags here:
QuoteIt sucks to be a Jew on the left
As Hadley Freeman leaves the Guardian for the Sunday Times, she opens up about her Jewish experience
December 06, 2022 10:57

Last week was my last day at the Guardian, where I've worked for more than 22 years. Quite a seminal moment for me, probably less so for all of you, but it did make me think about what it's been like in recent years to be Jewish, British and on the left.

The Guardian is the newspaper of the British left, of course, and I am now off to the Sunday Times, which is not. My own political persuasions haven't changed, by which I mean I'm not voting Tory at the next election. But there's no doubt I am – like Adam and Eve being cast out of Eden – leaving the garden of the left. So it seems like a good time to take stock.

Well, as I sit here, getting ready with my kids for the start of Hanukkah (the actually fun Jewish holiday!), things seem fine for British Jews. David Baddiel's documentary Jews Don't Count recently screened on Channel 4 and Jonathan Freedland's Jews. In Their Own Words played at the Royal Court.

The last time I heard from so many Jews was when I went to my cousin Ben's barmitzvah. And yet, all this almost over-the-top fine-ness is a reaction to the very much not-fine-ness that came before.

I don't think any of us want to rehash what I shall delicately refer to as The Corbyn Stuff. But I recently looked up what I'd written during that time and I found a 2016 article in which I mentioned that the Jewish MP Ruth Smeeth was heckled with abuse at the launch of Labour's antisemitism report (contrary to one of Jeremy Corbyn's most famous claims, this Zionist can see the irony in that.)

Afterwards, Corbyn chummily chatted with – no, not Smeeth, but the heckler, ending with a friendly, "I'll call you." And the weirdest thing about this very weird episode is I'd forgotten all about it.

Honestly, what a dumpster fire that whole period was, to the point that it's almost hard to remember what actually happened. But just off the top of my head, here is a list of things I remember lefty non-Jews saying to me back then:
1.    "I don't think you should write about antisemitism because you obviously feel very passionately about it."

2.    "What, exactly, are Jews afraid of here? It's not like Corbyn is going to bring back pogroms."

3.    "Jews have always voted right so of course, they don't like Corbyn."

4.    "It's not that I don't believe that you think he's antisemitic. It's just I think you're being manipulated by bad-faith actors. So let me explain why you're wrong..."

5.    "Come on, you don't really think he really hates Jews."

All of the above were said to me by progressive people, people who would proudly describe themselves as anti-racism campaigners. And yet. When Jews expressed distress at, say, Corbyn describing Hamas as "friends", or attending a wreath-laying ceremony for the killers at the Munich Olympics, or bemoaning the lack of English irony among Zionists, we were fobbed off with snarky tweets and shrugged shoulders.

What we were seeing, they said, we were not actually seeing. You could not design an exercise more perfectly structured to cause madness. It was, to be blunt, gaslighting.

Anyway, that's all in the past now, right? Well it is for me, because I'm walking away. A lot of illusions were broken, and I lost a lot of respect for a lot of people I thought I knew, but it turned out I didn't. Not really. Not at all. So I have left the garden. And it feels bloody great.   

Needless to say I think Starmer is also entirely right in having kicked Corbyn out of the party and having said that he can't, realistically, see a way back for Corbyn into the party.
Let's bomb Russia!