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Wrapping up the IRS scandal

Started by Jacob, June 27, 2013, 05:14:31 PM

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Jacob

Allegedly the scandal was basically manufactured out of nothing.

Summary: Liberal and Conservative groups were targeted equally for investigation by the IRS; the scandal was driven by a deliberately misleading representation of partial facts.

QuoteOver the years, the political world has seen plenty of scandals come and go, but I can't think of the last time a controversy flamed out as quickly and thoroughly as the IRS story. When the issue first broke in early May, we immediate talk about a Nixonian crisis that could bring down the White House, with pundits and politicians eagerly comparing it to the worst political scandals in history.

And then, all of a sudden, reality intruded and the controversy evaporated.

For Republicans, the problem is every central claim has been discredited. They said conservative groups seeking tax-exempt status were singled out for excessive IRS scrutiny, but we now know that wasn't true. They said conservative groups faced delays that liberal groups didn't have to endure, but that wasn't true, either. They said President Obama's critics were unfairly targeted, and that's ridiculously untrue.

Indeed, the irony of this week is that the previous allegations have not only been answered in a way that ends the discussion, but also that there are new allegations that turn the tables -- those who pushed the scandal are suddenly the ones who need to explain themselves.

The Treasury inspector general (IG) whose report helped drive the IRS targeting controversy says it limited its examination to conservative groups because of a request from House Republicans.

A spokesman for Russell George, Treasury's inspector general for tax administration, said they were asked by House Oversight Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) "to narrowly focus on Tea Party organizations."

This is important. The IG's report helped create the scandal, pointing to special scrutiny applied to Tea Party groups, but ignoring comparable scrutiny of progressive organizations that didn't fully come to light until this week. Why didn't the Inspector General provide a fairer, more accurate, and more encompassing report? Because according to the IG himself, Republicans told him to paint an incomplete picture on purpose.

The whole story, the IG's office said yesterday, "was outside the scope" of the audit requested by Republican lawmakers.

And with that in mind, in an unexpected twist, the congressional Republicans who relied so heavily on the IG's office to help create the controversy suddenly find themselves at odds with their ostensible ally.

"House Republicans on Wednesday pushed back on an inspector general's suggestion that the GOP asked for a limited inquiry into the Internal Revenue Service's targeting of conservative groups, a statement Democrats have jumped on in recent days.

GOP lawmakers and staffers acknowledge that they reached out to Treasury's inspector general for tax administration (TIGTA) after hearing that Tea Party organizations seeking tax-exempt status felt they were being mistreated by the tax agency.

But Republicans also say that it made no sense for them to try to limit the inquiry to the Tea Party, because a broader inquiry would be needed to determine whether the IRS was treating conservative groups more harshly than other groups."


So the IG's office is blaming Republicans and Republicans are blaming the IG's office. Seven weeks after the political world pondered the prospect of president impeachment as a result of this story, it appears the only folks who aren't accused of doing anything wrong are President Obama, his staff, and Democrats.

It's funny how these things turn out, isn't it?

Of course, the next question is who's right about the party responsible for screwing up so badly: the Inspector General or congressional Republicans. At this point, it's difficult to say with certainty, but it's probably best not to reflexively blame GOP lawmakers.

Garance Franke-Ruta had a very interesting report on Tuesday on J. Russell George, the George W. Bush appointee who leads the IG's office and who helped Republicans create the controversy with his misleading report. George now appears eager to pass the buck, but as Garance reported, the inspector general "might not be the impartial arbiter he successfully presented himself to be," and may not have given accurate answers during his sworn testimony.

"In May, George declined to answer questions about whether progressive groups were targeted, a kind cageyness that now raises questions about his impartiality in presenting findings about what went on at the IRS.

At the May 22 House Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing "The IRS: Targeting Americans for Their Beliefs," Chairman Darrell Issa asked George point-blank about "be on the lookout" orders: "Were there any BOLOs issued for progressive groups, liberal groups?"

"Sir, this is a very important question," the courtly George replied. "Please, I beg your indulgence .... The only 'be on the lookout,' that is BOLO, used to refer cases for political review were the ones that we described within our report."

"There were other BOLOs used for other purposes," he added -- such as "indicators of known fraud schemes" and, for "nationwide organizations, there were notes to refer state and local chapters to the same reviewers."

He did not mention the one now revealed for progressive groups."


Making matters worse, the Huffington Post's Sam Stein also reported this week that Gregory D. Kutz, one of the main author's of George's IG report, "had been relieved of" his previous position as head of the special investigations unit at the Government Accountability Office when he wrote an incomplete report and was accused by a colleague of "pursuing overly sensationalist stories."*

So, there may be a legitimate controversy here after all. It's just not the one the political world was obsessed with since early May. The trajectory is eerily similar to Benghazi: Darrell Issa and Republicans make serious charges, the charges are debunked, and the only remaining questions deal with allegations of Republican wrongdoing.

As for the pundits and politicians who spent seven weeks breathlessly speculating about Obama using the IRS as a political weapon to punish his enemies, we're still waiting for those corrections.

Looking ahead, the House Ways and Means Committee will have a hearing this afternoon on IRS developments, and it seems safe to expect Democrats to be on the offensive, demanding answers.

This is from a liberal leaning site, obviously. I'm wondering to what degree it's accurate?

Source: http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/06/27/19171531-in-the-wake-of-a-discredited-scandal?lite

Admiral Yi

C+ Amateur spin job.  If Madow's not careful her site will go full Huffington.

Razgovory

Care to make issue any particular facts?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

I'm taking the facts as stated at face value.  The conclusions don't follow from the facts.

Razgovory

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 27, 2013, 06:39:06 PM
I'm taking the facts as stated at face value.  The conclusions don't follow from the facts.

Do tell.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

CountDeMoney


Admiral Yi

His "proof" that IRSgate is a total fabrication seems to rest on three pieces of evidence.

1. That the Inspector General only asked for information about audits of Tea Party type groups.  So fucking what?

2. The IG was appointed by Bush.  Holy shit Batman, a smoking gun!!!

3. The IG in his Congressional testimony didn't mention any targetting of progressive groups.  That seals it!

You know, you could have just read it yourself.


11B4V

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 27, 2013, 07:49:52 PM
His "proof" that IRSgate is a total fabrication seems to rest on three pieces of evidence.

1. That the Inspector General only asked for information about audits of Tea Party type groups.  So fucking what?

2. The IG was appointed by Bush.  Holy shit Batman, a smoking gun!!!

3. The IG in his Congressional testimony didn't mention any targetting of progressive groups.  That seals it!

You know, you could have just read it yourself.

That would not fit in with their liberal aggenda if they did that.  :P
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Razgovory

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 27, 2013, 07:49:52 PM
His "proof" that IRSgate is a total fabrication seems to rest on three pieces of evidence.

1. That the Inspector General only asked for information about audits of Tea Party type groups.  So fucking what?

2. The IG was appointed by Bush.  Holy shit Batman, a smoking gun!!!

3. The IG in his Congressional testimony didn't mention any targetting of progressive groups.  That seals it!

You know, you could have just read it yourself.

If you only ask for information of audits of one group, then use that information as proof that this one group was is being targeted without providing information or even looking for information about any other group being audited at best it's inconclusive and at worst it's dishonest.  I.E.  No scandal.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Razgovory on June 27, 2013, 09:13:02 PM
If you only ask for information of audits of one group, then use that information as proof that this one group was is being targeted without providing information or even looking for information about any other group being audited at best it's inconclusive and at worst it's dishonest.  I.E.  No scandal.

Terribly dishonest.  Where is the evidence that is what the IG did?

The only evidence I've seen offered that the IRS targeted Tea Party groups is the testimony of IRS staffers.  I've never heard of evidence derived from the audits.  But since you have, I'd love to hear about  it.

PDH

Here we can see the Yi hunting in its natural grounds.  It sets up a trap to snare its prey while seemingly acting in an innocent manner.
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM

CountDeMoney


Razgovory

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 27, 2013, 09:30:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 27, 2013, 09:13:02 PM
If you only ask for information of audits of one group, then use that information as proof that this one group was is being targeted without providing information or even looking for information about any other group being audited at best it's inconclusive and at worst it's dishonest.  I.E.  No scandal.

Terribly dishonest.  Where is the evidence that is what the IG did?

The only evidence I've seen offered that the IRS targeted Tea Party groups is the testimony of IRS staffers.  I've never heard of evidence derived from the audits.  But since you have, I'd love to hear about  it.

Quote
The Treasury inspector general (IG) whose report helped drive the IRS targeting controversy says it limited its examination to conservative groups because of a request from House Republicans.
I decided to Italicize the spin, and leave the fact alone.  Since you chose to take the facts at face value, I suppose we'll be in agreement.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

Seriously Raz?  That proves your point that the IG only asked for Tea Party audits, and after looking at the pile of audits and only seeing Tea Party audits, concluded that the Tea Party was being targeted?  No joke? 

Razgovory

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 27, 2013, 09:44:21 PM
Seriously Raz?  That proves your point that the IG only asked for Tea Party audits, and after looking at the pile of audits and only seeing Tea Party audits, concluded that the Tea Party was being targeted?  No joke?

You were the one agreeing with the facts in the article.  Do you now have a problem with it?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017