Was Malthus ever poor?

[DGuller]

As I pointed out in the other thread, it is surprisingly difficult for even the experts to agree on what constitutes poverty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Canada

http://www.canadiansocialresearch.net/licos.htm

According to the above, the cut-off in the 1990s was around $18K, though not an "official" measure. I can't remember how much I earned, but I'm pretty sure it was less than that.

Of course, if CC is right, income-based measures are pointless because one isn't "really" poor unless one takes into account what one's parents make.   

Perhaps, CC, you ought to contact Statistics Canada and tell them what being poor "really" means - it evidently has nothing to do with how much you earn per year, but must also take into account one's family circumstances; all those 20 and 30 year olds complaining about the fact that there are no jobs for college graduates are not really "poor" at all, because look - they are educated. Even if they are making minimum wage washing dishes, that doesn't count. 

Statistics and statistical definitions can always be misleading in individual cases, especially corner cases.  That's why people who work with statistics, if they are any good, apply judgment when using them.

[Malthus]

Statistics and statistical definitions can always be misleading in individual cases, especially corner cases.  That's why people who work with statistics, if they are any good, apply judgment when using them.

You didn't actually look at the links, did you.

There are major debates about how to define "poverty". None of the debates frame the issue the way you and CC wish it to be framed.

We can either believe you, or the scientists working in this field.

Of course, you can take comfort in your popular vote. In some places, that trumps stuff like facts and evidence.

[DGuller]

I don't think poverty experts spent a lot of time thinking about how they should classify rich kids slumming it.  Somehow I don't think that's the burning issue if you're in that field.  You are a corner case, and as such, no definition of poverty will both be useful and encompass your situation.  This is the kind of question that is best answered by common sense rather than a courtroom trial with expert witnesses.

[Malthus]

Malthus needs to spend a couple weeks living paycheque to paycheque in a rent controlled apartment building where Mayor Ford buys his crack to know what poverty is.

I lived in communial houses, paycheque to paycheque, while people around me dealt drugs. Wasn't the Ford brothers though, they were in Etobicoke at the time. 

A typical story from that time: I was trying to get some sleep when these guys came over to buy hash from another guy living there. They get really, really high, and refuse to leave. One falls asleep in a pile of ratty blankets in the courer. He really stank of BO.

Still later that night - more guys come, to buy LSD. I hear "WTF is that SMELL?" from the other room. Turns out the new guys objected to the stink of the sleeping guy. That AM, when I get up, I find that they had, by way of comment, dumped the garbage on him before they left - he didn't wake up, so was happily sleeping, like a pig in a manger, in a pile of coffee grinds, banana peels, etc. 

[Malthus]

I don't think poverty experts spent a lot of time thinking about how they should classify rich kids slumming it.  Somehow I don't think that's the burning issue if you're in that field.  You are a corner case, and as such, no definition of poverty will both be useful and encompass your situation.  This is the kind of question that is best answered by common sense rather than a courtroom trial with expert witnesses.

In short, don't confuse you with facts because you know the truth when you see it? Got it. 

[DGuller]

I don't think poverty experts spent a lot of time thinking about how they should classify rich kids slumming it.  Somehow I don't think that's the burning issue if you're in that field.  You are a corner case, and as such, no definition of poverty will both be useful and encompass your situation.  This is the kind of question that is best answered by common sense rather than a courtroom trial with expert witnesses.

In short, don't confuse you with facts because you know the truth when you see it? Got it. 

No, it's more like "keep the facts in their context".

[CountDeMoney]

I lived in communial houses, paycheque to paycheque, while people around me dealt drugs. Wasn't the Ford brothers though, they were in Etobicoke at the time. 

A typical story from that time: I was trying to get some sleep when these guys came over to buy hash from another guy living there. They get really, really high, and refuse to leave. One falls asleep in a pile of ratty blankets in the courer. He really stank of BO.

Still later that night - more guys come, to buy LSD. I hear "WTF is that SMELL?" from the other room. Turns out the new guys objected to the stink of the sleeping guy. That AM, when I get up, I find that they had, by way of comment, dumped the garbage on him before they left - he didn't wake up, so was happily sleeping, like a pig in a manger, in a pile of coffee grinds, banana peels, etc.

So who's arguing that this is poverty or being poor; you or DG?

[Syt]

So Malthus was slumming for a couple of years. Got it.

[Lettow77]

I hope someday I am in a situation where people insist I couldn't possibly have ever known poverty 

[merithyn]

I lived in communial houses, paycheque to paycheque, while people around me dealt drugs. Wasn't the Ford brothers though, they were in Etobicoke at the time. 

A typical story from that time: I was trying to get some sleep when these guys came over to buy hash from another guy living there. They get really, really high, and refuse to leave. One falls asleep in a pile of ratty blankets in the courer. He really stank of BO.

Still later that night - more guys come, to buy LSD. I hear "WTF is that SMELL?" from the other room. Turns out the new guys objected to the stink of the sleeping guy. That AM, when I get up, I find that they had, by way of comment, dumped the garbage on him before they left - he didn't wake up, so was happily sleeping, like a pig in a manger, in a pile of coffee grinds, banana peels, etc.

I think you're conflating poor choice of friends with poverty.

[PDH]

I chose to live in poverty for a while, to show I could make it.  Still, I always knew that I had a safety net (still do, to be honest).  My family, while not super rich, has more than enough money.  My own adventures, which mirror Malthus to some degree, always had the "back of the mind" reassurance that if things went really, really bad I was only a collect phone call away from help.

[The Brain]

Sheilbh was poor once. He briefly lived in a slightly smaller castle.

[Ideologue]

Garbon was poor once.  He considered going to Columbia.

[Caliga]

I've never been poor.

[Eddie Teach]

I suppose Malthus is richer than me every step of the way in his life.

Well, he does live in Canada instead of China.