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Sonia Sotomayor for USSC?

Started by Caliga, May 26, 2009, 07:35:35 AM

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Berkut

Quote from: Barrister on May 26, 2009, 12:49:27 PM
given the absurdity of the statement I don't think it unreasonable to assume she mis-stated whatever she was trying to say.

That would certainly be what one would hope - but I am not so sure that is the case.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Fireblade

<_< Great, the Timmay-taint reaches the Supreme Court.

Faeelin

Quote from: grumbler on May 26, 2009, 12:12:50 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on May 26, 2009, 11:34:13 AM
Interesting. So you don't think think judges bring their personal baggage with them into the Court Room?
Interesting.  So you think judges should decide cases based on their ethnic/gender preferences rather than the law?

Nope. But I don't thinks she's arguing that. I think she's pointing out that the traditional interpretation of the law has been skewed by the fact that the majority of judges are old white men; which is hard to dispute.

Berkut

Quote from: Faeelin on May 26, 2009, 01:20:27 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 26, 2009, 12:12:50 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on May 26, 2009, 11:34:13 AM
Interesting. So you don't think think judges bring their personal baggage with them into the Court Room?
Interesting.  So you think judges should decide cases based on their ethnic/gender preferences rather than the law?

Nope. But I don't thinks she's arguing that. I think she's pointing out that the traditional interpretation of the law has been skewed by the fact that the majority of judges are old white men; which is hard to dispute.


It is hard to dispute that the majority of judges are "old white men", but it is trivial to dispute that this has resulted in the law being "skewed".

I have no problem with old white, black, or light brown women being judges at any level - the idea that their race or gender is valuable outside their competence however, is exactly the opposite of what judges ought to be.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Caliga

Quote from: Fireblade on May 26, 2009, 01:09:35 PM
<_< Great, the Timmay-taint reaches the Supreme Court.
Perhaps it will be: overturned! :w00t:
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jimmy olsen

Quote from: Fireblade on May 26, 2009, 01:09:35 PM
<_< Great, the Timmay-taint reaches the Supreme Court.
I'm against her though. I thought the "taint" only covers those I root for.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
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grumbler

Quote from: Faeelin on May 26, 2009, 01:20:27 PM
Nope. But I don't thinks she's arguing that. I think she's pointing out that the traditional interpretation of the law has been skewed by the fact that the majority of judges are old white men; which is hard to dispute.
I think that she is suggesting that judges should allow their gender or ethnicity to influence their decisions.

The argument that "old white men" are a group that "skew the law" is certainly one that is trivial to dispute.  None of the groups "old" nor "white" nor "men" are monolithic, so to argue that all three used together is monolithic is absurd.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

DontSayBanana

Quote from: Barrister on May 26, 2009, 12:24:37 PM
I think you are reading more into the few comments of hers I have seen than is there.

I doubt very much that if asked she would agree that "judges should rule based on ethnic/gender preference".

I doubt she would say that, too, but without reading between the lines, the quote is horrible. She's claiming that her minority status makes her a more qualified decision-maker, without even qualifying which sorts of decisions she's referring to.

At best, it's an egomaniacal faux pas.
Experience bij!

grumbler

Quote from: Barrister on May 26, 2009, 12:49:27 PM
You are correct that I seem to more or less ignore that one sentence.  For her to say that people come with their own biases and experiences is fine - but when she says that the experience of a latino woman would be better than a white male, well, given the absurdity of the statement I don't think it unreasonable to assume she mis-stated whatever she was trying to say.
It is possible that every one of these strange statements makes sense within some wider context without the need to take them at face value.  I think it more reasonable to assume that she means what she says than to assume that she doesn't, though.

We need more info to be sure, but on the basis iof what i have seen the woman seems as unqualified for the court as Thomas, and as blatantly partisan a choice as Alito.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

crazy canuck

Quote from: grumbler on May 26, 2009, 02:19:52 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on May 26, 2009, 01:20:27 PM
Nope. But I don't thinks she's arguing that. I think she's pointing out that the traditional interpretation of the law has been skewed by the fact that the majority of judges are old white men; which is hard to dispute.
I think that she is suggesting that judges should allow their gender or ethnicity to influence their decisions.

The argument that "old white men" are a group that "skew the law" is certainly one that is trivial to dispute.  None of the groups "old" nor "white" nor "men" are monolithic, so to argue that all three used together is monolithic is absurd.

I wish you were wrong.  Predicting outcomes for litigation would be so much easier if there was some kind of monolithic view from the bench.

Razgovory

Quote from: PDH on May 26, 2009, 11:09:44 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 26, 2009, 10:31:42 AM
that list mostly contains a list of cases.  How exactly are you discerning her views from a case list?  For example would you conclude that Justice Scalia was soft on terrorism because he ruled the executive detention of Yaser Hamdi was unconstitutional?
Scalia has been moving to the left for a long time now...

Well that's just because Ginsberg keeps stealing his seat and moving him over.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: grumbler on May 26, 2009, 12:19:23 PM
we have created a situation where "justice" depends explicitly on whether one has the clout or luck to get the "right judge" for one's case. 

That situation already exists to some extent now, for reasons aside from racial and gender identification.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Scipio on May 26, 2009, 12:51:42 PM
Katzmann is a much better option, IMHO.

Another Moynihan guy, but I think the President was looking for someone sans penis.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Malthus

In Canada, selection of judges for the top court goes by a sort of quota for regions, I understand - based I suppose on the notion that having these different regional backgrounds provides some valuable different insights. Of course, provincial laws do differ, significantly so in the case of Quebec, which I suppose makes regional difference balancing a better idea than racial or gender based balancing (though I suspect some of that happens too).
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

Barrister

Quote from: Malthus on May 26, 2009, 03:14:43 PM
In Canada, selection of judges for the top court goes by a sort of quota for regions, I understand - based I suppose on the notion that having these different regional backgrounds provides some valuable different insights. Of course, provincial laws do differ, significantly so in the case of Quebec, which I suppose makes regional difference balancing a better idea than racial or gender based balancing (though I suspect some of that happens too).

There certainly is some gender balancing that goes on.

The issue of language is also pwoerful - there was a minor controversy over whether apppointees must be know French.

That being said I am unaware of any SCC appointments that have gone to persons of non-European ancestry.
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