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#31

Off the Record / Re: The EU thread

Last post by Valmy - November 20, 2025, 02:48:52 PM

Germany should check whether it can join the UK/Japan/Italy project instead.

Clearly the best way to come to a consensus is to have more parties.

#32

Off the Record / Re: What does a TRUMP presiden...

Last post by Valmy - November 20, 2025, 02:44:19 PM

You can be put to death for saying things? Talk about cancel culture.

#33

Off the Record / Re: What does a TRUMP presiden...

Last post by Syt - November 20, 2025, 02:38:47 PM

[Trump says Democrats' message to military is 'seditious behavior' punishable by death]

#34

Off the Record / Re: What does a TRUMP presiden...

Last post by Syt - November 20, 2025, 02:37:04 PM

https://apnews.com/article/trump-military-traitors-sedition-illegal-orders-c5fc3c5bd2fbc6b1204550e4203c24b2

Trump says Democrats' message to military is 'seditious behavior' punishable by death

President Donald Trump on Thursday accused half a dozen Democratic lawmakers of sedition "punishable by DEATH" after the lawmakers — all veterans of the armed services and intelligence community — called on U.S. military members to uphold the Constitution and defy "illegal orders."

The 90-second video was first posted early Tuesday from Sen. Elissa Slotkin's X account. In it, the six lawmakers — Slotkin, Arizona Sen. Mark Kelly, and Reps. Jason Crow, Chris Deluzio, Maggie Goodlander and Chrissy Houlahan — speak directly to U.S. service members, whom Slotkin acknowledges are "under enormous stress and pressure right now."

"The American people need you to stand up for our laws and our Constitution," Slotkin wrote in the X post.

Trump on Thursday reposted messages from others about the video, amplifying it with his own words. It marked another flashpoint in the political rhetoric that at times has been thematic in his administrations, as well as among some in his MAGA base. Some Democrats accused him of acting like a king and trying to distract from soon-to-be-released files about disgraced financier and sexual abuser Jeffrey Epstein.

What Democrats said in the video

With pieces of dialogue spliced together from different members, the lawmakers introduce themselves and their background. They go on to say the Trump administration "is pitting our uniformed military against American citizens. They call for service members to "refuse illegal orders" and "stand up for our laws."

The lawmakers conclude the video by encouraging service members, "Don't give up the ship," a War of 1812-era phrase attributed to a U.S. Navy captain's dying command to his crew.

Although the lawmakers didn't mention specific circumstances in the video, its release comes as the Trump administration continues attempts at deployment of National Guard troops into U.S. cities for various roles, although some have been pulled back, and others held up in court.

Are U.S. troops allowed to disobey orders?

Troops, especially uniformed commanders, have a specific obligation to reject an order that's unlawful, if they make that determination.

However, while commanders have military lawyers on their staffs to consult with in helping make such a determination, rank-and-file troops who are tasked with carrying out those orders are rarely in a similar position.

Broad legal precedence holds that just following orders, colloquially known as the "Nuremberg defense" as it was used unsuccessfully by senior Nazi officials to justify their actions under Adolf Hitler, doesn't absolve troops.

However, the U.S. military legal code, known as the Uniform Code of Military Justice or UCMJ, will punish troops for failing to follow an order should it turn out to be lawful. Troops can be criminally charged with Article 90 of the UCMJ, willfully disobeying a superior commissioned officer, and Article 92, failure to obey an order.

How Trump, others responded

On Thursday, Trump reposted to social media an article about the video, adding his own commentary that it was "really bad, and Dangerous to our Country."

"SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR FROM TRAITORS!!!" Trump went on. "LOCK THEM UP???" He also called for the lawmakers' arrest and trial, adding in a separate post that it was "SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR, punishable by DEATH."

Democrats were swift to react to Trump's words, with Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer warning in a floor speech that the president was "lighting a match in a country soaked with political gasoline."

Speaker Mike Johnson said he did not believe Trump was calling for violence in the social media posts, saying Trump was merely "defining a crime," and calling the Democrats' video "wildly inappropriate."

"Think of the threat that is to our national security and what it means for our institution," Johnson added.

Trump's allies balked at the video. Wednesday on Fox News, White House deputy chief of staff Stephen Miller called the messaging "insurrection — plainly, directly, without question" and said it represented "a general call for rebellion from the CIA and the armed services of the United States, by Democrat lawmakers."

On X, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth commented on the video Tuesday as "Stage 4 TDS," referring to "Trump Derangement Syndrome" — a term used by Trump to describe voters so angry and opposed to him that they are incapable of seeing any good in what he does.

The Steady State, which describes itself as "a network of 300+ national and homeland security experts standing for strong and principled policy, rule of law, and democracy," wrote in a Substack post on Thursday that the lawmakers' call was "only a restatement of what every officer and enlisted servicemember already knows: illegal orders can and should be refused. This is not a political opinion. It is doctrine."

Pentagon spokesperson Sean Parnell challenged the theory that illegal orders were being issued.

"Our military follows orders, and our civilians give legal orders," Parnell told The Associated Press on Thursday. "We love the Constitution. These politicians are out of their minds."

#35

Off the Record / Re: The AI dooooooom thread

Last post by PJL - November 20, 2025, 02:35:01 PM

Honestly, the way things are going, being ruled by AI doesn't sound much worse than what is already happening.

#36

Off the Record / Re: The AI dooooooom thread

Last post by Grey Fox - November 20, 2025, 01:55:30 PM

It's unnecessary. None of our power sources are maintenance free.

#37

Off the Record / Re: The AI dooooooom thread

Last post by celedhring - November 20, 2025, 01:51:38 PM

Ezra Klein had a former AI developer turned whistleblower a couple weeks ago that essentially said that we should juryrig AI datacenters with explosives for when they go full skynet, because they will. He seemed a bit unhinged, but not completely.

#38

Off the Record / Re: What does a TRUMP presiden...

Last post by Admiral Yi - November 20, 2025, 01:12:40 PM

They have to watch out though as I am not too sure MAGA crowd will be happy with obvious attempts to obscure stuff. That will just feed the conspiracy theorists at a time Trump wants to move on.

I heard the same talk the first go around.

#39

Off the Record / Re: What does a TRUMP presiden...

Last post by garbon - November 20, 2025, 12:33:33 PM

I find it a bit funny how people are saying the Epstein files are going to be released. Nothing with Trump's name in it will be released. Those will be held due to the newly started investigation into Bill Clinton and other Democrats.

This was mostly known...either "part of ongoing investigation" or "redacted to protect the victims" were always going to be obvious ploys.  But short of a Trump-is-guilty-of-bad-things smoking gun, I think most of the political damage has been done, and it has been a very effective weapon against the GOP/MAGA crowd. 

The only pain for the Democrats is that it will likely now fade into the background and Trump can now fill the headlines with his flying circus again.

They have to watch out though as I am not too sure MAGA crowd will be happy with obvious attempts to obscure stuff. That will just feed the conspiracy theorists at a time Trump wants to move on.

#40

Off the Record / Re: What does a TRUMP presiden...

Last post by Tonitrus - November 20, 2025, 12:21:24 PM

I find it a bit funny how people are saying the Epstein files are going to be released. Nothing with Trump's name in it will be released. Those will be held due to the newly started investigation into Bill Clinton and other Democrats.

This was mostly known...either "part of ongoing investigation" or "redacted to protect the victims" were always going to be obvious ploys.  But short of a Trump-is-guilty-of-bad-things smoking gun, I think most of the political damage has been done, and it has been a very effective weapon against the GOP/MAGA crowd. 

The only pain for the Democrats is that it will likely now fade into the background and Trump can now fill the headlines with his flying circus again.