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#1

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by Josquius - Today at 04:40:35 AM

Top 2- Meh
Bottom 3- bad.... But I would wonder about eggs and chickens.

I don't think that the top two are being shed because people now feel an enlightened post-nationalism or confessionalism feeling an equal or greater obligation to all humanity. I think it's that they don't feel obligated or beholden or connected to anyone.

I can't remember where I read it.... I might have heard it on the rest is politics or somewhere like this. But it rang very true of what I've seen in person.

In local communities the people running the local food bank, doing voluntary litter picks, and generally doing all the really great stuff that helps communities get by- these tend not to be the frothing nationalist Tory/Reform voters who endlessly moan about the decline of community and blame it on the immigrants/trans/whoever.

Rather they tend to be the pretty hippyish, zero care for the flag, Green/Labour voters.

Big difference between patriotism and nationalism of course. A decline in patriotism isn't the thing to celebrate that a decline in nationalism would be (hence meh). But I don't see that its particularly necessary for people to live a good life. The 2 at the bottom left meanwhile...

Money is a funny one as.... The obvious in seeing it as a very important value is sad and depressing. But it is of course a cornerstone of society and necessary to do good things. Lots of interpretation there.

#2

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by The Brain - Today at 04:03:11 AM

Biden body-slammed the desire for community involvement into oblivion.

#3

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by Tamas - Today at 03:59:14 AM

Like I usually say, I don't want to outright dismiss such concerns, but it is important we remember that we are now in the age group (entering it or way into it) when it is the most cliche thing imaginable to see society regressing and falling apart.

It might actually be happening for real but also much more likely it is just us slowly losing touch.

For one, "not enough religion, patriotism, not wanting children" - my whole fucking life conservatives and the far-right have been crying about these things and used them as an excuse to do more for the actual regressing of society than any urban childless atheist ever did.

#4

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 03:13:56 AM

Top 2- Meh
Bottom 3- bad.... But I would wonder about eggs and chickens.

I don't think that the top two are being shed because people now feel an enlightened post-nationalism or confessionalism feeling an equal or greater obligation to all humanity. I think it's that they don't feel obligated or beholden or connected to anyone.

#5

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by Razgovory - Today at 03:06:38 AM

"Why won't you do more to save the country you hate?"

#6

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by Josquius - Today at 02:56:51 AM

Top 2- Meh
Bottom 3- bad.... But I would wonder about eggs and chickens.

#7

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 02:01:55 AM

Probably feeding into lots of conversations here, but this seems bad:


Related to the US - but I think maybe more widespread: https://www.wsj.com/articles/americans-pull-back-from-values-that-once-defined-u-s-wsj-norc-poll-finds-df8534cd - it'd be interesting to see the more granular year by year polling, but I suspect covid was an inflection point.

#8

Off the Record / Re: The EU thread

Last post by Sheilbh - December 07, 2025, 08:39:34 PM

I agree with your post in general, but wanted to submit the following idea in response to this part: we need to figure out ways to get the money to sustain our social models. States need to get that money where it actually is these days, and increasingly it is not (barring the odd trillionaire) with the general population. We need to tax financial transactions and we need to tax corporations more.

Something like this could be a start:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_financial_transaction_tax

So I'm not totally sold because I think the level of revenue to sustain a social democratic system is far higher than you can get from soaking the rich, or corporations. And what worries me is that I think there is less buy-in for the broad based, everyone pays sort of system you need to sustain it - in part, I think, because fewer people feel like they benefit. I'd also add that the estimate for that FTT tax is that it'd raise €55-60 billion a year which is not nothing but split between states is not huge - it's also significantly less than the €150+ estimated revenue EU states could generate by ending the internal tax shelters (Ireland, the Netherlands, Belgium, Cyprus, Luxembourg and Malta). I think building new complex taxes may be more work than it's worth, especially compared to reforming and properly enforcing existing ones (but this is my answer to everything: build back state capacity).

But I also think the bigger challenge is that it slightly hits into the challenge of globalisation. Because we've spent the last 40-50 years encouraging the free flow of capital - it is one of the EU's four freedoms - and part of moving to an economics-dominated world. So in the same way as I don't disagree with the idea of a wealth tax, taxing corporations or financical transactions - all of that seems sort of meaningless if we're still committed to allowing the free flow of capital. It's like using a sieve to bail out - we need less free flowing capital, more control by states with coercive powers to police and punish.

I'd add to the point with Valmy - as I think this is true across Europe - that our discourse is very Americanised on this (it reminds me of the campaigns in the US pushing for a $15 minimum wage, which got pickd up by campaigners here who wanted a £15 minimum wage ). In the UK, income inequality has basically plateaued since the 80s. Wealth inequality for longer - so the share of wealth held by the top 1% in the UK is just over 20%, it was at about 20% in 1980. In the US it's gone from below 25% to over 35%.

#9

Off the Record / Re: Football (Soccer) Thread

Last post by mongers - December 07, 2025, 07:17:46 PM

Man this place is dying, yours and Norgy's post are the only ones today, in like about 10 hours.

I was busy today, with a movie/blu-ray/DVD fair and a screening of Boorman's Excalibur in one of the last cinemas in the Champs-Élysées. 

 

Nice.

#10

Off the Record / Re: The EU thread

Last post by Zoupa - December 07, 2025, 07:00:13 PM

I don't think there's a way out of that. But I think the "left" is broadly so committed to the social and cultural aspects of a neo-liberal globalised world, they are not able to even imagine alternatives that could meaningfully address the economic effects of that system.

I agree with your post in general, but wanted to submit the following idea in response to this part: we need to figure out ways to get the money to sustain our social models. States need to get that money where it actually is these days, and increasingly it is not (barring the odd trillionaire) with the general population. We need to tax financial transactions and we need to tax corporations more.

Something like this could be a start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_financial_transaction_tax