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#1

Off the Record / Re: US - Greenland Crisis Thre...

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 06:49:31 PM

Everyone is on and on about how the whole failing of NATO is some broader geostrategic thing, but I suspect there are only two aspects to it:

I don't agree.

I don't think Trump is driving it from some grand geopolitical analysis or anything like that. But I think bigger forces are the driver here. I think that's geopolitical but also a lot to do with energy and resource deposits, productive power and that different orientations of political and state power will produce different political forces.

Basically I think Trump is one of the morbid symptoms and not the cause of them.

#2

Off the Record / Re: What does a TRUMP presiden...

Last post by Admiral Yi - Today at 06:32:57 PM

Yi will have to explain to me why foreign countries let US have base on their territory any longer.

No I won't.

#3

Off the Record / Re: What does a TRUMP presiden...

Last post by viper37 - Today at 06:29:31 PM

Trump administration's defense strategy tells allies to handle their own security

Yi will have to explain to me why foreign countries let US have base on their territory any longer.

They're really a security risk more than anything at this point.

#4

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by mongers - Today at 06:25:20 PM

Well he has now said that UK soldiers in Afghanistan were 'among greatest of all' so well done team?

Is like dealing with someone who has constant diarrhea, by taking the shit and trying to shape it into turd like objects and then saying 'hey look this one looks like a normaly shaped one'. 

#5

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by garbon - Today at 06:16:10 PM

Well he has now said that UK soldiers in Afghanistan were 'among greatest of all' so well done team?

#6

Off the Record / Re: Go Persians, go!

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 05:45:00 PM

Does look like their may be a US strike too. They've moved a lot of forces into the area, Western airlines are limiting flights over the Middle East, the RAF have deployed forces to Qatar for "defensive purposes" (Qatar is a key LNG supplier for us and our "supplier of last resort" in the event of an energy crisis) and the Iranian regime is issuing some very bellicose statements on what will happen if their leadership is attacked.

#7

Off the Record / Re: Facebook Follies of Friend...

Last post by Tonitrus - Today at 05:42:18 PM

Simple Occam's razor here...no need to speculate on the South Pole...stupidity is more than sufficient.

#8

Off the Record / Re: Trump's Venezuela Vendetta

Last post by Tonitrus - Today at 05:41:13 PM

I've been trying to think of a good play off of "Bay of Pigs"...but "Bay of the Cheeto Hog" doesn't have quite the ring to it.

#9

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 05:31:21 PM

I get that we are at the end of a very contentious week and hackles are raised but I also think a lot of the reaction overstates the significance of his Afghanistan comment. Let's remind ourselves what he said:

[...]

Is it ugly, is it disrespectful? Certainly. Was he making a considered critique of NATO troops and their sacrifices? I don't think so. I think he was rather continuing with his already established argument that America's allies are dispensible/worthless. Maybe a little bit of an additional stinger thrown in given how he had to climb down from his sabre rattling.

Responding to that by cataloguing casualties and the operations allies participated in strikes me as assuming a level of historical engagement and moral seriousness that simply isn't there with Trump. It is taking his provocative rhetoric and making it more elevated than it actually is. This isn't Trump disrespecting veterans because he's weighed their service and found it wanting, its Trump not really thinking about them at all. 

That's not to downplay how people, especially veterans, might feel or suggest they should toughen up. Far from that as I hate the idea of society becoming enured to Trumpian behaviour and accepting it as normal. But after having spent the last couple weeks rightfully indignant about Trump on Greenland it all feels a little 'surprised pikachu' to get all lathered up again about rhetoric in a Fox News interview. Are we just going to be angry forever?

I don't know if this will stick those individuals who have still been Trump-inclined in Europe. He has said many morally repugnant things which have been accepted. I'm not sure this 'incident' will have the heft to enter into people's long term memory. And these are people that were already 'okay' with Trump doing down their militaries.

So I get what you're saying and I kind of agree.

But I wonder if some of this though is also that we are posting on Languish - and I suspect we are vastly more aware of Trump's other remarks than most. I think the UK is America-brained and we live on the American internet. But in the same way as most people don't really pay any attention to politics or the news. Especially with Trump I think a lot of those remarks are basically white noise. It's not that this is worse or more pikachu surprise than anything - it's that it has cut through to a very broad public in a way that most of what Trump says/does doesn't. I think Greenland did in general (see the "leave Greenland alone" heckle at the London NBA game), I think this and the bullying of Zelensky did etc.

I also think in terms of disproportionate coverage, I think that's a fair criticism but I also think part of that is that it's catnip for the British press. Different sections of the press will have different sections to get excited about but you've got an insult to veterans/"our boys", why won't Starmer do a Love, Actually moment and then Prince Harry wading in. That is a story that feels almost designed to engage the pathologies of about 90% of the British press

But also I'm not sure that we should bring to what Trump says the level of historical engagement and moral seriousness that he is bringing. I don't think it is elevating to him to think, engage and take things seriously. I think not doing that can too easily lead to a risk of a glib "nothing matter" nihilism.

I really don't get this bit. Am I missing something about the significance of Davos that puts it symbolically on par with Arlington Cemetery or the Arc de Triomphe?

Fair - and I possibly over-egged that. But a British PM does not matter in the way a US President does. So an off-hand remark by the President has a higher salience to the rest of the world.

Well I think it did move the needle within Europe or at least the UK. Obviously not in America.

But America is not the Brits' fight to save. Trump shitting all over the Union Jack is worth driving home.

Yes. It is difficult to overstate how unpopular Trump is in the UK. I think even a majority of Reform voters disapprove of him. But there was a significant shift in opinion after the Zelensky meeting - because the overwhelming majority of British people are very pro-Ukraine.

It doesn't matter really because we're not American voters - but I think part of why it's been big news is it's not just the sort of story that Rest is Politics listeners care about but is picked up on an Express frontpage too.

#10

Off the Record / Re: US - Greenland Crisis Thre...

Last post by Valmy - Today at 05:19:44 PM

It must be nice to live in a country where you don't hate 40% of your fellow citizens.